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Thursday, October 20, 2005 

Let's Keep It Civil

When I wrote my last blog, "Greeks, Immigrants and Oxi Day", I was hoping that people would express their opinions with some degree of civility. However, the 'discussion' quickly deteriorated into mudslinging. . While I'm a firm believer in freedom of speech and expression, I would think that people could refrain from vitriolic comments in order to express their opinions. I certainly do not want my blog space to be a haven for such people because I fear I will lose some valuable contributions from people who do take the time to write their comments with tact and some degree of diplomacy. I know how difficult this can be especially on the thorny issues such as immigration, gun control, racism and abortion but I'm hoping that it can be done because I quite like reading many different opinions even if I don't always agree with them.

Now, I find myself facing the role of a moderator. An online babysitter. I haven't the patience for it. I don't want that role forced upon me by inconsiderate commenters but at the same time, I will not consent to having this blogspace turned into an insult forum. Being in agreement with me or any other reader is definitely not a prerequisite to post. On the contrary, I enjoy a lively debate as do most people. I just ask that the personal attacks and insults to be excluded.

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Sorry too many typos first time.

Hi SeaWitch. This is a position I have found myself in a few times. It is hard to know where discussion ends and mudslinging begins. I am sorry you have been forced into this unwillingly but when you throw/put posts like this into "the world" this is what you get. People will resort to name calling and mudslinging when their argument is threatened. I enjoy a lively debate but I am floored by the name calling too. Respect to you

I'm really sorry that you felt you had to defend your heritage on here. That's definitely not what I wanted or condone. I really appreciate your input and hope that you don't get so discouraged that you stop posting altogether.

I know that SeaWitch.
Of course, I will not stop posting altogether ( I am the Diva) but I feel I have to bow out of the previous discussion for a while.

Quite understandable. Anything else posted in there now will be filed under "beating the dead horse".

LOL.
Flogging and the rest.

Oh come on, you guys! I was just getting started!

/shakes fist angrily in the air

;-)

Zork...I'm not telling you to stop. By all means DEBATE. Argue. Make it heated. State your points. State them a hundred times if you want. It's just that when people start insulting, the original topic of debate is lost and people have to spend their time either defending the insult or thinking up a worse one to throw back.

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

So what am I supposed to do now with the brass knuckles I've just bought? :P

Seawitch, we certainly have a lot of heated debates on my blog, especially since my partner and I have a "no ban" policy and everyone is free to say anything they want about anything. My only concern is the same as yours, that people try to keep the discussion semi-civilised, other than that, we have no rules.

In your previous post, I commented on the issue you posted and an aggressive, arrogant racist started taking cheap shots at anything he could think of, trying to insult not just me but any poster he didn't like.

Ethny is a racist and he's a joke, not much to debate there. He makes erroneous statements with no substance or fact and when someone disagrees with him and points out the obvious, he throws hissy fits and temper tantrums.

I'm not one to state my point a hundred times, I've said what I had to say, it's there for the world to see. Will I keep making fun of ethny? Yes. However, if you want me to leave, I will, and no hard feelings :-)

steelheart, I could use those brass knuckles on my site. If you ever visit me, please feel free to bring them along ;-)

He can't even come up with his own statement of defense. LOL

What exactly has been your contribution here, Dork? Calling me a racist as your first interaction? Very good. Ignorning evidence that I provided from unbiased sources? Twisting my statements into what you WANT them to say instead of reading exactly what they say? Losing the debate before it began and flying into a childlike, vitriol filled tirade? Patting yourself on the back that "you've said what you had to say"? ROTFLOL

Oh yeah, and trolling for people to come to your pathetic blog?

Thanks for the "contributions" and the clear evidence that you are nothing but an insignificant speck with super-selective memory.

"vitriol filled tirade?" Project much, ethny?

My "pathetic blog" has over 3,000 unique visitors a day, no need for me to troll for hits. I'm here because I enjoy seeing you making an ass of yourself. Besides, you wouldn't last very long on my blog, people would tear you apart in a minute, you sad little racist :-) No offense to the owner and the commenters here, but they're taking you seriously and you don't deserve it.

ethnocentrist, none of your "evidence" indicated what you claimed it did. You posted links that contained no actual evidence that Israel really genetically tests ANYONE at all, and then claimed that you'd proven your point. You didn't prove anything except your willingness to distort speculation about the future and opinion columns into statements of absolute current fact.

Calling me a racist as your first interaction?

Are you saying you're not a racist? Every word out of your mouth has been racist. Your *nickname* is *ethnocentrist*. If you're not a racist then why do feign surprise and offense when you walk, talk and act like one and then are called out for it?

Losing the debate before it began and flying into a childlike, vitriol filled tirade?

Pot, meet kettle.

No, I do not project at all, Freud-lite. Do you? It appears so, doesn't it?

Ever since you've gotten here, you've done nothing but throw out ad homs and trumpet this blog, blog, blog, blog, blog. LOL Shall we count the times you've mentioned it for someone not interested in promoting it? Is that where you hang your worth? Your blog? ROLTFLOL

My, what an empty life.

Oh, since this is a rather empty log entry, I'll entertain your childish rants here. But please, show me more of your contributions.

Awww, Dork's little blog buddy to the rescue. LOL

How sweet.

What's your definition of racist, Evar-the-Moron? I've given mine.

As to the genetic testing, you have a Jewish Indian tribe that DOES NOT WANT TO GET TESTED GENETICALLY to prove their Jewishness. Uh, the mere fact that it occurs does not seem to bother you two dolts, eh?

"Uh, the mere fact that it occurs does not seem to bother you two dolts, eh?"

No, genetic testing doesn't bother me one bit. What bothers me is your lie that this is Israel's official policy. Your tirades in trying to cover up your lie are not bothering me either, I find them amusing.

What bothers me is your lie that this is Israel's official policy.

Show me where I said that, Dork. I'd love to see it. Hurry up now. I wouldn't want you to be shown for the idiot liar that you are.

"China, India, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Japan all have racial legislation and will not allow anyone to immigrate unless they are from the respective countries and can prove it. In Israel’s case, genetic testing is done."

And no need to thank me for finding your lie, er--I mean your misinformation, it was my pleasure. I'm always willing to help a racist in need.

Come on now Ethno. I assumed you were a reasonably intelligent human being until you started resorting to name calling like that. What is the point?

Let's not have SeaWitch start busting heads. I know she can, too!

Zork...I've never asked anyone to leave my blog nor have I ever banned anyone for saying what they feel. (It would have to be something very serious such as death threats or truly vile comments before I would remove anyone) I'm just asking...that IF it's at all possible...to try to be civil. I don't want to lose some of the voices of reason in here (and you all know who you are) LOL. Whatever happened to the Art of Conversation?

Just as I thought from the Dork. Thanks for setting yourself up like that. Maybe I am slow, however I do NOT see anything there that states, and I quote "Israel's official policy". What you have done is PROJECT your intolerant leftist vitriol unto me as you so desperately WANT to smear me with. You are the very exact vermin that you supposedly champion against. You are a vile little empty Marxist that would put the acts of Hitler to shame. Hitler hell, Stalin and Mao are more to your liking. What can one say about a piece of intolerant subhuman filth who justifies his existence not with accomplishment but with his "blog". LOL

Let me sum it up for you cretin since you have completely veered off the subject due to an absence of a god damn argument and are fixated on "racism" like a good piece of leftist, incompetent shit...

Israel:
1) Only wants Jews in its country.
2) Jews are a race, unless you're going to give me the "religion" strawman where I have no idea how they can test for the "religion gene".
3) They follow the strict Law of Return where Jews have to prove themselves as Jews and if not acceptable by the Rabbinical court, they get tested genetically AS THE LINKS state.

So you see, what I stated is the absolute truth. You, in typical leftist vitriolic fashion, saw what you wanted to see and went off on your lunatic ramblings. Don't worry though, Thanos has some good medications for the likes of you.

I'm sorry to you SeaWitch and Melusina. It is true the little university Marxist fucker got me off track. Though he presented a clear display of the intolerant left and the lack of any debate. Ad hominem attacks are the only thing these pricks are taught at school. Not facts. Not logic. Not tolerance, though they are supposed "proponents" of it. Not decency. Nothing. Looks like he got an A for asshole.

We don't seem to be debating ideas here, but trying to score points against each other on an individual basis. I can definitely detect communist/marxist/trotskyte leanings in some of the posters and nationalist expressions on others. These two worldviews have irreconciliable differences in the ways at seeing the world. The people expressing nationalist viewpoints do so from the basis of love for one's country, patriotism,respect for tradition, kith and kin; the marxists communists start from an international platform , love all mankind and to hell with national identities , open borders; repeating old worn out cliches and claiming to be very tolerant but in fact they are a monument to the most extreme form of intolerance , masters at crafting name tags on their oponents, (e.g. antisemite,homophobic, racist, chauvinist,supremacist,hate speech,bigot, intolerant etc) . They cling to a belief which is s utterly irrational even in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary .

No prize for guessing which side you're on, anonymous. You state all the right's arguments as being based on postive themes and all the left's as negative.
That's WHY there is no debate here. How can a left leaning person debate issues when they continually get told they use cliches and worn out arguments while the right leaners are presenting "facts" and "truths"?

This is the way the right stomps on any meaningful discussion we could have. I don't know how many times I have heard the phrases "strawman" and "ad homs" 'worn out" "tired" when referring to the left. The right seems to claim continously that they are the sole keepers of the "truth". Facts and statistics are not the the domain of the right. Anyone can use them to "prove" whatever they like.

What we need is debate not "proof". There is "proof" out there that the earth is flat, that Greeks are from outer space and that women are evil.

Does that "proof" make it so. I think not.

I am sure you will all be able to "prove" that I am a loony lefty liberal from this comment.

Has anyone else noticed that all of the ethnocentrist sympathisers do not have blogs of their own? I wonder why.

Has anyone else noticed that all of the ethnocentrist sympathisers do not have blogs of their own? I wonder why.

Who cares? Maybe we're just too busy working to support our families and the generous welfare state that allows us the honor of having these "diverse" people to be amongst us? Hmmm?

I've also noticed you hate "proofs" and "racist statistics". What shall we base intellectual decisions on? Beliefs? Ideology? The stars? Facts are only hated by the left in my experience. The reason is they cannot argue against them and only argue against the messenger, as your buddy Dork showed.

No, not stars but beliefs and ideology is good.

"Who cares? Maybe we're just too busy working to support our families and the generous welfare state that allows us the honor of having these "diverse" people to be amongst us? Hmmm?"

Well, you don't seem to be so busy that you can't devote so much time to commenting on the blogs. You are probably the most prolific writer out of all of us. My family also works hard to support ourselves AND the welfare state (which also helps pay for pensions and the health service) but find time to deal with issues I care about.

Beliefs and ideology are good? There was a time that people believed the Earth was flat. There was also a time when peoples illnesses were attributed to four internal humours. Why don't we "believe" that any longer? Where would we be today if people were not allowed to investigate these claims back then and determine if they had any merit or not? Why are we not allowed to determine and critically analyze the detrimental effects of immigration but are forced to "believe"?

You are so good at twisting peoples words around. I used the example of the earth being flat before as something that was "proved" and there are still people out there that can "prove" it.

Is it wrong for me to be tolerant and humane because I BELIEVE this is the right way to behave.
Do I have to have facts and figures to back me up because I want to live my life in a good and honest way?

I do NOT twist words. I'm sorry that your ideology has left you helpless in defending your stance. If there are people who can still "prove" the Earth is flat, then they're insane.

As to this...

Is it wrong for me to be tolerant and humane because I BELIEVE this is the right way to behave. Do I have to have facts and figures to back me up because I want to live my life in a good and honest way?

No, as long as it does not impinge on the rights of others and unfortunately this belief has detrimental impingement on me and my kin. Therefore it is hostile to my ethny and I do not want it.

Sorry? How does my wanting to "to live my life in a good and honest way" impinge on anyone?

"detrimental impingement on me and my kin. Therefore it is hostile to my ethny and I do not want it"

How is it hostile to your ethny? What DO you want? For me to behave in a wicked and dishonest way?

You, as a single individual, do not have a deleterious effect. Your ideology and the ideology of other Marxist egalitarians has HUGE negative effects. The flooding of countries with genetically distant peoples will bring chaos and is an indirect and direct hostility towards the native population. It really is THAT simple.

So I am a marxist egalitarian am I? Where did you get that from? I said I want to live "a good and honest life".
Not be a good marxist.

Oh dear. My comment didn't show up. Here it is again.
How does wanting to live a good and honest life make me a Marxist egalitarian?
Why is ok for you to accuse me of being a marxist and not for anyone to accuse you of being a fascist?

I will have to leave you all for tonight. I do, believe it or not, have a life.
Happy blogging (or not as the case may be.)

Devious Diva, what are you doing in Greece ? Away from your fold and warm soul brothers ?

Have Greeks invited you to live in Greece, or are you one of those boat jumpers ?

You seem to be in love with yourself and your witticism, Narcissus. I am waiting for you to post some thoughts, ideas, concepts, solutions to the problems afflicting your soul brothers.

All what I read betrays a sullen soul, an agrieved spirit, a frustrated ego waiting to burst forth. Desperately searching for an audience to applaud and lionize you, a fillip to a starved ego.


Don't bother to answer , it is a matter of supreme indifference how you wallow your time in Greece. Time can better be expended than to invest one ounce of energy reading your vapid lucubrations .

I do not know the opinions and arguments of everyone here well enough to comment on who is most guilty of being rude or using the worst logic, but, Ethno, you seem to find no problem in hypocritically lambasting people for their supposed ad hominems. I suppose you will argue they deserve it, that your insults can be proven by any "intelligent" reading of their comments. But, as Melusina asks, what is the point? What purpose does it serve to complain about everyone elses' arguments while behaving like a condescending bully? Would it be logical to assume that it makes you feel good?

I was going to write something wise ass like "yes" and leave it at that, however the question deserves an answer.

I look at from several points of view. I write about extremely non-PC things and most people have been droned to react with faux horror and contempt when these topics are broached. I do my best to stay civil, sometimes I manage, and other times I do not. I also do not take the approach that others do who write about racial and ethnic issues that we MUST stay civil at all times. Take the high road. I view it that we can no longer be civil and polite as if the left is doing us a favor by listening to us. The time for civility has nearly lapsed unless things start to change drastically. The forcing of distant, hell even proximate, peoples can and will cause tremendous upheaval. Look at all the fighting that has occured in Europe with people nearly identical, racially and culturally. Now are we to expect completely different races and cultures thrown in our midst while our voices are muzzled are to bring peace and harmony? Please. So, if a leftist drone is a prick to me, I do not have any qualms returning that favour. We need to show we still have a will to live instead of wimpering away to die as they want.

SW: Inevitably, comment moderation emerges once topics attract the kind of response we've seen re. flags & immigrants. One added reason to move to a more sophisticated blogging tool, like Squarespace, is the ability to monitor discussion forums and have commenters register with the blog. Experience says that imposing a bit more control on the traffic drives down the propensity of people to be... errr... aggresively "outspoken."

To another anonymous wading in with the personal attack.

"Devious Diva, what are you doing in Greece ? Away from your fold and warm soul brothers ?"

I am here because I choose to be. As you would know if you had actually read through my posts to this blog. As for being away from my "warm soul brothers" I don't have any. I also don't have any brothers.

"Have Greeks invited you to live in Greece, or are you one of those boat jumpers ?"

"No and no. What is a boat jumper exactly?" I came by plane with a ticket and a passport the way the majority of foreigners come.

You seem to be in love with yourself and your witticism, Narcissus. I am waiting for you to post some thoughts, ideas, concepts, solutions to the problems afflicting your soul brothers."

I seem to be in love with myself? I love myself if thats what you mean and I assume everyone else feels the same about themselves. If you don't love yourself there's something wrong maybe? Again with the soul brothers which I already said I don't have.

"All what I read betrays a sullen soul, an agrieved spirit, a "frustrated ego waiting to burst forth. Desperately searching for an audience to applaud and lionize you, a fillip to a starved ego."

What can I say? That's what you read. I think you are wrong. My ego is fine. Don't be concerned. Thank you for your wonderful analysis of me. It was uncalled for but at least it made me laugh.


"Don't bother to answer , it is a matter of supreme indifference how you wallow your time in Greece. Time can better be expended than to invest one ounce of energy reading your vapid lucubrations "

If it is of such supreme indifference to you, why did you sit down and write this? Don't waste anymore time then. You are not obliged to read what I write.

"don't bother to answer" is probably what I should have done but...

I would suggest you stick to commenting on the issues and spend a little less time focusing on having a go at me.

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