Sovereignty of SeaWitch

That quote can be a bit of a curse these days, eh? Lol

Surprisingly, I can actually see both sides of this debate. I would assume that having at least one Greek parent isn't an issue in this matter. For the immigrant children, though, I can see how Greeks might see them carrying the flag as an affront. I suppose it is one thing if an immigrant family is just here temporarily, or if they intend to become "Greeks". I guess then that the two year rule makes sense in that regard.

The way I am, if I had a child who wasn't Greek (ie. wasn't born to a Greek parent) I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable letting him or her carry the flag on this type of national holiday. I'd defer to the Greeks on this one, because it was their battle, their fight, and I'd want their descendants to bear the flag. But that is just me.

All that being said, I don't think it is right that it had to be this type of debate, spitting on children, etc. type of thing. That is just ignominy on everyone, for a holiday that Greeks should be proud of, not make asses of themselves.

I see both sides of the debate as well since I first became aware of the controversy back in 2000 when the first immigrants carried the flag. Although I do understand the Greek position on this debate, I also know that there is no escape from the fact that immigrants are in Greece and increasing in numbers as the EU expands its borders. We cannot go back in time and therefore, I believe that the only way for foreigners to assimilate is to allow them to partake in every aspect of greek life...from education to jobs to parades. When Odhise Qena received the honour to carry the Greek flag twice, many people objected. Their reaction, no doubt, made him realize that he has no future in Greece and that probably influenced his decision to accept a full scholarship at Boston University instead of continuing his studies within Greece. Greece needs more stellar students whether they are Greek by birth or not.

And I must admit, I am somewhat biased in my stance on this issue. My son is Canadian by birth but you can't tell him he's not Greek. He feels it in his heart and identifies strongly with Greek culture and history. To deny him the right to 'be Greek' would crush him since he has absolutely no affinity for Canada whatsoever.

the issue came up with an Albanian kid. the problem is that oxi day celebrates the stand against the italian fascist invasion, which the Albanians facilitated (including organized Albanian minority groups in Greece who helped the Italan and German fascists during the rather cruel and traumatic occupation)

It was wrong to impeed the kid from carrying the falg, but not exactly a scandal. It did not come after all from xenophobia, prejudice against foriegners or "immigrants" buy reaction to the irony of it being an Albanian (who still held Albanian citizenship) for that particular anniversary.

"Immigration" in Southeast Europe is no like immigration to the US. most of the "immigrants" are in fact guest workers, many intend to return to their home coutnries, many do and leave have their kids in school there gtting a much better education than Albania or Bulgaria.

In the US several localities would not even allow these kids into the public schools!

I think I'm kinda singing from the same song sheet when it comes to this issue. I can see the issue from both sides but it just angers me beyond belief when it gets out of hand. If the top student wins the honor to carry the flag and they want to take that honor then so be it. If your a Greek parent and you see it from a different point of view then thats fine too. When it's not fine is when kids are encouraged to turn upon their fellow class mate and even go as far as staging sit ins at the school. What should have happened is that no-one carried the flag. The class should have not marched.

The purpose of the march each year is not only to honor the brave heros who died fighting and basically give thanks to their sacrifise. Thanks to those people, we live today in a free and democratic Greece.

A free democratic Greece that should treat people as equals.

October 28th makes me proud of my nationality and my country. It doesn't make me feel proud however of some (and please remember people it's a very small minority) of my fellow Greeks who boo and spit and hate at children. I think they need to remember what όχι day is all about and get with the program.

OK well, as ever I have to put in my 2 pence worth. I am wary of flag waving of any kind. I am one of those people who wholeheartedly cheered on Greece in the European cup (and was moved to tears when they won) while my english friends slated them for getting there. Nationality is quite low down on my list of who I am.
I like England, it has some good things about it but my heart has never swelled with pride over it.
Maybe I'm odd like that. I don't feel rootless because of this. My cultural roots are in England and in Jamaica but I don't feel I am culturally fixed. I now kiss people on both cheeks (not in my upbringing but has become part of me) What I am trying to say is that, while I understand that people like these displays of Nationalism, I do not have that need. What I loved during the Olympics was seeing people swapping their flags,t-shirts and paraphenalia with people from other countries. Like I said maybe I'm odd but I just had to comment.
As an endnote. I think using children in this heated and sometimes mean debate is inexcusable.

Anonymous is incorrect. In the U.S., the Supreme Court has ruled it unconstitutional to deny undocumented minors access to public schools. Schools are not allowed to ask about a family's immigration status.

It is the inalienable right of Greeks to be the flag bearers during patriotic marches.

An immigrant school goer should have the common sense to understand and respect this.

Greece does not and does not need to follow the other european nations into their genetic funeral march.

Greece is a homogeneeous nation, foreigners are welcome to stay as long as they are conscious of their "guest"status.
Greece is a small country with limited natural resources and territorial space and greeks themselves are hard pressed to live within its confines without having to compound the living space problem with an influx of unwanted barbarians.

Self flagellation and the glorification of the Barbarians in our midst is not tolerance but a suicidal virus.

"influx of unwanted barbarians."

Excuse me while I choke on my tea.

gyge,You may not like us and not want us to carry your flag but calling us barbarians?

That is completely unacceptable. It also does nothing for your argument.

Diva...Winston Churchill said "Hence we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like Greeks”. Those men and women were heroes to me as well and even though I have never owned a flag, I do attend the parades commemorating them. I may not be Greek but I am moved and humbled by the sacrifices they made and therefore, I feel it's the very least I can do.

Gyge...I wonder what you think of the thousands of Greeks who emigrated abroad? Are they barbarians too just because they aren't ethnic Americans/Canadians/British/Australian? Or is the word barbarian used only to describe people like Diva and me in Greece?

Ethno...I'm just curious how you can think immigrants are such a drain on a country when you are the son of immigrants? From what you've mentioned in other posts, your parents sound like wonderful people. I would hate to think that people thought of them the way you and gyge think of other immigrants. Even though we don't always agree, it's obvious that you're quite literate. I would immediately dismiss any American telling me that you and your family are barbarians just because you're of immigrant stock.

"Hence we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like Greeks”

Not that I want to rain on your parade (pun intended), but this phrase of Winston Churchill has been disputed on numerous occasions. The new version of the story basically says the phrase was invented in the later years to enforce Greek pride in primary and secondary Greek schools. If you run a google search with the phrase, you will only get four pages with results mostly from Greek sites, the majority of which are sport ones and featured this phrase after the Euro 2004 championship (Google will show you 7 pages on the first page, but they are in fact 4. Google does that often.). Not exactly my version of objectivity in history :P Too bad Chirchill can't tell us his own side of the story anymore.

Steel...you could very well be right since I wasn't around to hear him say it but I did google the search query "greece fought like heroes + winston churchill" and 64,700 pages came up. Of course, not all of them relate to the quote but several sites such as: reference.com, answers.com and michigan.gov all attribute the quote to him. Considering what the Greeks did to repel the Italian invasion, it doesn't matter to me if the quote is Churchill's or not. It's still an accurate statement as far as I'm concerned. (BTW, I really appreciate your posts...I enjoy reading them.)

"Wow, believe it or not, but Gyge is not me, however I do like how he/she thinks."

I take it then, ethnocentrist, as you did not comment on the barbarian remark, that you agree with that too?

The thousands of Greeks that emigrated to USA, thousands of Poles, Germans, Italians; they emigrated because they were welcomed into those new lands, welcomed for their enterprise and industriuosness to build and develop the land, the country.

Those emigrants were not "smuggled" in, they arrived with proper documentation and not in container ships, trucks, or leaky boats sailing the waters , Those emigrants were not illegals hiding under the umbrella of human rights organizations or United Nations pseudo refugees invader programes. When they landed in the new countries they did not rely on "relief"societies/agencies to house them, feed them ,medicate them and other creature amenities.

And after a while if they did not make it in the new land they returned to their countries of origin.



They were a pioneering breed, and the land needed people, needed settlers, needed to populate empty spaces, needed to build a nation and a country.

There is no land in Hellas, there is no free space waiting to be po opulated,and least and last by barbarians, Greece is already a nation state for Greeks, with thousands year of history , Greece is not a Corporate entity or a nation waiting to be build.

There lies the difference between those emigrants and the new parasitic invaders who land in mass in Greece or anywhere else in Europe, paperless and expecting to be housed in 5 star reception centers, be given medication ,be financially supported,be given Jobs ( Greeks and Greek youth are unemployed and underployed in good measure)encouraged to bring in their family members ( to join the queue of recipients of state subsidies, create slum areas) and make outrageous demands about "their" rights being violated. What rights ? The poor Greek worker taxed to the bone marrow must pay for these unwelcome intruders and tolerate the ungrateful litany of their perceived woes.

The emigrants of the past build those new countries, the invaders or barbarians of today they have nothing to build in Greece but to destroy the little that there is.

gyge, In fact most of the "babarians" you ranted about in your previous post here are LEGAL.
What you are on about is illegal immigration. As I have said before illegal immigration needs to be addressed by the individual countries and laws need to be drawn up BUT if the conditions of detention are inhumane and the treatment of immigrants endangers lives, that is an issue of HUMAN RIGHTS and everyone is entitled to those. The vast majority of immigrants here behave in exactly the same way as the Greeks who went to America. They work, pay taxes, they contribute to the society they live in. Undocumented migrants are NOT demanding 5 star detention centres. They are asking not to be put in containers like cattle. They are asking for access to water, food and the chance to become legal or seek assylum here.
If Greece really does not want to have people trying to start a new life here, it should get out of Europe, make laws that allow the authorities to behave any way they want to and not reap the economic and social benefits of being in the international community if it chooses to act against its laws.

Immigration is an issue that should be decided by individual nations.If we speak of Democracy and democratic traditions ,then let's practice them. Unfortunately nations in Europe today can not be considered sovereigns. They are governed and ruled by the EU bureacrocay. This bureacracy is in its nature antinational and has an utter disregard for the electorate. Immigration en masse,an extreme position, legal or illegal is inimical to the indigenous and native peoples. When this immigration is of a different hue colour, culture and cosmovision the issue can become explosive, since it is no longer an immigration but rather a colonization enterprise undertaken by unassimilable races. A peoples replacement plan.

I always wonder why immigration is not directed towards Africa,India,Japan, China, or thirld world countries ? These countries reject it nonchalantly, because their essence is national, it will be foolhardy to criticize their policies and labeled them as discriminatory.

Thirld world immigration is targeting the white nations of Europe. This is sinister, criminal, and no self respecting nation can permit this.

As far as Greece is concerned ,Mr Divas is right, Greece should get out of the EU and not allow to be dictated from ivory towers and thick carpeted offices in Brussels. As far as the largesse of the EU is concerned it is a mere illusion masterminded by master illusionists, the future generations will be in bondage for ever to repay this supposed largesse. This fact is never mentioned by the donor to the receipient.

I visited Greece in 1965, 1977, and 1980 ( the hand of Brussels was soft and its voice hardly audible then). It was a jewel of a country. I visited Greece again in 2003 and found that the jewel had lost its polish and shine and looked tarnished; pity and a thousand pity ( this is my humble opinion and only my impression)

Immigration and the wrong sort of immigration is equivocal. I hope the Greeks have the sanity to realize this and to appreciate the land their ancestors legated to them and ensure that it endures for posterity by not allowing themselves,lemming wise, to be engulfed by the chaotic storms building up in the race replacement program. Where no immigration or racial problem exists ,don't create one. It is simple as that.

As far as OXI day is concerned, it is a Hellenic day for the Hellenes. Hellenic blood was spilled to prevent the country from being invaded by Germans and Italians. A great disservice is rendered to the honour and memory of Hellenes who fell, in the snowy mountains of Albania,fighting to repel a mighty invader and thus save Hellas,if the frontiers of this venerable nation is flung open to ( quoting Gigge; she or he seems to speak from the chest and drill down the essentials ) Barbarians .

I wish the very best for Hellas in this new struggle to protect and ensure their survival and may the spirit of Oxi day inspire them in the future.

Pavloupulos seems to be a beacon of light and wisdom. Like the rest of his cabinet Pavlopoulos is a weather cock, a subject to prevailing winds, can not think for himself or is afraid of expressing himself. His understanding and conprehension of matters in general is limited and is reduced to make pronouncements based on second hand spurious data devoid of any scientific study . A perfect ventriloquist of the establishment, a propaganda mouthpiece. Otherwise he is an excellent old chap. I had coffee with him, a few years ago, at the Grand Bretagne hotel. He did not offer to pay. I must hasten to add, he was not a minister when we had our cafedaki.

There is no need to become agitated in this forum. Expressions are being aired and ideas are being tabled. Discuss the ideas and their merit and not the people representing them, the people come and go, the idea stays and it is taken up by other representatives, some of them may have verbal skills, others may not, others might lucubrate, again others may be brief and concise. Others may be given to hyperbole, yet others might betray other feelings, this are mere trappings of conveying an idea

I will refrain from making comments other than I am enjoying reading the postings and I tend to focus on the concepts or ideas and its substantiation and not on the writer or writers.

Let's hear more views, albeit controversial, in a harmonious and non discordant vein.

I think our brother Thanos might have had one too many glasses of ouzaki.

Go down like the Titanic ?

What would have happened if Leonidas had thought like that,or the fighters at Marathon or at Salamis ? Why do we have an Oxi day ? Precisely because we refused to go down like the Titanic.

Ethnocentrist and Gyge have said it all, there is little else I can add. Bravo Pedia, with spirits like yours there is hope in the future.

"many anew immigrants are certainly savage in comparison and do not fit the civil norm that has been created by European man."

Could you please elaborate.

I believe you are talking about cultural differences which you percieve to be "savage"
I was brought up to believe
that spitting in public was the behaviour of inferior people. I admit I was quite shocked and disgusted to see people doing that here. But I would never stoop so low as to call them savage.

Well, you can admit the irony of a Greek immigrant extolling the virtues of life in Greece, no?

But all this is off the subject.

As I said before, I do happen to lean towards the "immigrants shouldn't carry the flag" stance in this particular case. But not because immigrants are inferior or savage or whatever you want to call them. This is a Greek holiday, one that celebrates the will and determination of Greeks against a horrible enemy. While I can understand the pride immigrant parents must feel that their child is at the head of the class, I think it would be the polite (and to me, correct) thing to defer the honor of carrying the flag to a Greek student.

Personally, though, I think Greeks should be more concerned about why their children aren't at the head of the class than who is carrying the flag.

"...maybe there is a future for me in politics. Definitely not in the US, but maybe a repatriated Greek. I'd set things straight in about 3 seconds."

From the outside looking in, it does seem that simple doesn't it Ethno. You would have quite a fight on your hands with rampant corruption here. If you've had a chance to read the 2005 Corruption Index from Transparency International, you would know that Greece is listed in 47th position...sharing this dubious "honour" with Namibia,Slovakia and the Czech Republic. Even Botswana ranks higher at 32. As good as your intentions may be to set the country straight, you will be hampered by corrupt customs officers, immigration officials and basically about every other civil service department right down the line. How do you think thousands of illegal immigrants manage to make a go of it here in the first place? They paid someone off. Many Greeks seem to have no problem hiring illegal workers which only exacerbates the problem. They either don't care or don't realize how this affects the increase in illegal immigration. Either way, everyone loses.

Gyge...haven't you ever wondered where the racial slur "WOP" originated? It's an acronym for WithOut Papers. Many immigrants arrived in North America without the proper documentation.

One thing's for sure...Greece is a small nation and simply cannot absorb the ever-growing number of ILLEGAL immigrants. The State's lack of a coherent immigration policy is largely to blame for this sorry state of affairs.

Now you get personal, ethnocentrist. I happen to be European too.

"If you have so much trouble with uncivilized and evil Europeans, then by all means go back to your nation of origin so you could finally be at peace. Why are you still here fighting against the "intolerance"? Could it be that these societies are much better than anything you could possibly go home to? The chances are quite good that that is the case."

I have never talked about uncivilised, evil europeans.I fight against intolerance because it is intolerance.
Enough. I cannot fight YOU any more.
You believe what you believe and I doubt anyone can change your mind, least of all me. I feel your disregard of me. And I bow out of this discussion. As always the Diva.

Hey SeaWitch, are blockquote tags allowed?

"Because of the resentment and outright fury exhibited by some schools' parents and classmates, immigrant children succumbed to the pressure and opted out of the parade altogether."

I don't know how people cannot see the shame in this. These are children, they need encouragement and support like all chidrent do, and these kids, in a new country and a new culture need it even more. Whether ethnocentrists and chauvinists like it or not, immigrants are in Greece to stay. Fostering hostility and alienation over which *child* gets to carry a flag for an hour does nothing to promote assimilation, harmony or civility in Greek society. And what does it say about Greeks?

Good blog, SeaWitch, blogrolling you.

"So to me, that implies you do NOT view yourself as European but rather black."

"rather black?"

You wouldn't happen to be a racist, would you? And why does it matter to you how she identifies herself?

"Did everyone get a gander how Dork Midden tried to suppress and essentially cause a screeching halt to any "unpleasant" discussions by using the quite potent leftist tactic of asking if I was "racist"? This is quite a formidable sledgehammer of PC speech suppression the left uses in the US especially and worldwide in general."

Translated into English: "Help! I'm being oppressed!"

ethnocentrist, you're funny. You should visit my blog sometime, we'll have a blast.

Sorry, published this or something like this before but it got lost?
OK ethnocentrist. Now I'm mad. I stated in another post directed to YOU on my blog.
" I am a British citizen and have the right to live and work or study in another EU country if I choose. You have that same right in Britain"

Yes, I am black, mixed race and british. NOT WHEN IT SUITS ME BUT THAT"S WHAT I AM.

I didn't expect you to back down, I was dismissing you. It's clear by your own words that you're a racist, I wasn't trying to use it as a way to intimidate you, you're clearly very proud of it. I was simply stating the facts.

But whatever you say, oh keeper of the truth.

32 comments already.

Both sides are right as to whether immigrant kids should be allowed to bear the flag. I haven't made up my mind yet, as about any other big issues, such as multiculturalism in the West.

However, characterisms as "barbarians" are outrageous and simply don't stand. To those who distinguish European from American immigration: I've overheard a conversation once where someone accused north Americans of being "the descendands of European and Israeli shit" (no kidding), because a good deal of them were criminals who ran away from their countries. The sound of it is not good, but if one person said it blatantly, there are probably more of the same opinion.

And for once let's not forget that when America started being colonized, Europeans didn't just go there and started working and building houses. The area wasn't vacant when they got there and they slaughtered lots of Indian Tribes. These Europeans weren't the good guys of the fairy tale.

If Greeks had to choose between starvation and drudgery, they would of course prefer drudgery. However, they still don't want to do them and if someone exploits immigrants for 20 euros without social security, it's not the immigrants' fault for taking the Greek's "jaaabs". It happens everywhere in Europe. In London Underground stations I see mostly Africans working there (I'be travelled only between zones 1-3 I don't know what gives in zone 4 and beyond). It's the normal thing. When you immigrate taking nothing with you, the first thing to do is to find a job quickly to put food on the table.

I've been in England for some time, and as long as you work, this country is very hospitable and you're treated as equal. Greece hasn't done that yet (we never say never). End of story.

Seawitch: Yep, it doesn't matter whether or not Churchill said that heroes fight like Greeks. With a small army compared to those of bigger powers, Greece had fought well and repelled the Italians for 2 complete months! That alone says a lot.
You may appreciate my blog, but it seems to me it's the result of me not having many things outside work to do :P

Thanks for taking the time out of your Mother of All Blogs to visit and post on mine. Glad to see you here! (If I knew what blockquote tags were, I'm probably sure I'd allow them...I'm just thrilled I can manage to post a blog every other day let alone even THINK about HTML.)

Steel...I tried to post on your blog but I got an error message. (That's the second time it's happened...I don't know what I've done wrong.)I just wanted to say that the reason you haven't seen a "No Swearing" sign on my blog is because I was too busy swearing to post it. LOL

Ethno...Diva has stated her ethnicity in her blog although what bearing that has on her ability to comment on my blog mystifies me.

Thanos...What can I say? When you're right, you're right. We can't continue to whine and point fingers if we're not prepared to actually DO something about it. For me, it all starts at a personal level. We can't blame politicians for nepotism if we expect to profit from their nepotism. We can't blame the government for hoarding our tax dollars in personal offshore accounts when we do the same. The hypocricy must stop. The blame must stop. The change, as you so accurately stated, must start ona personal level. As soon as we become personally accountable for our own actions (or lack of), then we can justifiably point the finger to our elected officials. (Your attempt to steer this debate into another direction is not an imposition...it's appreciated.)

The first paragraph of my last post was directed at zork. I guess that's what happens when I'm reading other responses and typing at the same time...dementia.

"The western world has made ungodly strides towards being tolerant and in my opinion, ignorantly so."

Those "ungodly strides toward being tolerant" that the western world has made, include the murder of a few million Jews and gypsies simply because they were Jews and gypsies.

And on the subject of tolerance and racism, I'd love to hear ethny's opinions about Jews :-)

And also, I cannot find any evidence that Israel does genetic testing on immigrants other than to test for hereditary diseases. Would you please provide a link?

If only Greece treated immigrants the way the racist Israelis do.

Dork, my job description does not involve masturbating you. You need to do it yourself in order to get your rocks off.Filthy imagery and personal abuse, does that make you a skilled debater? Or just a filthy-mouthed bully with no social skills? Grow up.

Nowhere in your link does it say that this is Israeli policy, ethny. This is an op-ed piece about what Israel may or may not do sometime in the future. Again, it's someone's opinion, not Israel's official policy.

You're full of bluster and thunder and rush to insults, but your argument remains empty.

Read carefully to Ethnocentrist, he understands clearly the issues and sees the big picture. Unfortunately Gyge seems to have faded away. I enjoyed his postings . Plinio Centeno made some startling points.

There is a poster who claims to be black ?, obviously he will make his viewpoint made known from a black perspective, therefore no constructive debate can be had with the poster.With all due respect I don't expect a non greek to provide solutions for our problems. l As a black man and an educated one his talents can be much better utilized in African countries where his skills will be in high demand and he can make tangible contributions to its betterment and upliftment.Since he appears to be a passionate defender of immigration ,his skills on the subject can be deployed in Africa to convince Africans to develop immigration policies on the continent and contain the brain drain Africa is suffering through emigration and offer advice for its reversal.

Views on Greece and Greece's problems are insipid and superfluous when expressed by foreigners. The foreigner will never lift a finger for Greece, his heart, his emotions will always be with the blood of his ancestors ,and rightly so.

We have a little country and we are a race nation state and we love it like that.If a foreigner does not like it it's his problem.We offend no one by protecting what is ours. I don't want to see my country polluted by immigration.I don't want to feel a stranger in my land. Greece is not an immigrant country. I don't believe this is difficult to understand. I have grown tired listening to the lies that we need workers, we need manpower, we need immigrants we need this ,we need that, in fact we need anything and everything that is antinational. Lies and deceit to further the aims of certain political groups and serve their multicultural and nation wrecking agenda's.

There is no question and no debate on the Greek flag issue. The Greek flag must be borne by a Greek and only Greeks.

Don't people read the comments before they wade in?

Dexamenus, you said
"There is a poster who claims to be black ?"
I don't CLAIM to be black, I am.

"obviously he will make his viewpoint made known from a black perspective, therefore no constructive debate can be had with the poster."

How does the colour of my skin or my perspective effect my ability to have a constructive debate?

"As a black man and an educated one his talents can be much better utilized in African countries "

I am a woman (divas generally are).
And why in an African country? I am British as I've stated several times before. Why should I be confined to use my talents in Africa?

I said last night I was bowing out because I felt this personal attack on me and my identity had got out of hand and was not part of the original argument. Also I was tired.
I came back today to see more venom and bile thrown around here.

A friend wrote to me this morning and pointed out that as this argument has gone on the "boys" have got louder and louder and their comments are getting longer. The more reasoned voices got smaller and their comments shorter. Interesting. It's usually the loudest and rudist that get heard in the end. But if all the smaller voices stop, they will assume they have one by their "fact filled" "informed" and "intelligent" arguments.

ethnocentrist, If you want to talk about honesty, I have been more honest about who I am than most people here. I have always written from the personal unlike you who have chosen to hide behind your "facts and statistics" I have told you I am european, that I am black, that I believe this and that. What difference does it make if I am mixed race or whatever? If you read back on my blog where we had many exchanges you will see. Do not insult me just because you did not remember.

"Whether or not it is "official" Israeli policy was your assumption and the information is currently not available to the general public."

So the information is not available to the general public, but you know it because you're special, is that it? Does Sharon consult you before he speaks too?

Ethny, besides being a racist, you are misinformed, continuously make wrong assumptions and you're arrogant about your errors in judgement. You've become a caricature. You have no argument, only insults. You come across as a small-endowed man with a Napoleonic complex.

"...well then I'll gladly stomp on both your little peckers..."

LMAO! Yeah, reach through your screen and stomp on our "little peckers". You're a pathetic keyboard warrior, helplessly frothing at the mouth. You're a joke, ethny :-)

deviousdiva,

"What difference does it make if I am mixed race or whatever?"

To a racist, it makes all the difference because racists see the world through the prisms of skin colour and "genetic superiority". And ethny is a racist.

Hey ethny, what have your genes done for you lately?

I know. Just trying to make some sense out of this discussion. Like banging your head on a brick wall.

Well, something must have touched a nerve with Ethno because he usually doesn't get so personal. And I don't know if his moanings about liberals and marxists are really the crux of his problem.

This conversation started to throw me for a loop when he implied that if Diva was black she couldn't be European. I did a Scooby Doo like shaking my head on that one.

What I really don't get is why or how being black/Jewish/Greek/European or whatever matters in the scope of things. Obviously, yes, people have opinions based on their backgrounds and who they are. How can they not? But just because someone is black doesn't mean they can't see the point of view of a white person, or vice versa.

Perhaps you are right. Greece does not have a responsibility to take on immigrants of any kind. Nor does anyone, really. I agree to the extent that Greece cannot afford to take on the number of immigrants that frequently arrive on it's shores. But this is an issue the EU as a whole needs to work on.

Do I have solutions? Not really, aside from things I have suggested on Diva's site.

But in the end, why shouldn't the Nigerian have the right to move to a new country to make a better life for himself and his family? Why is not ok for him but ok for the Greeks that constantly move to America or wherever looking for a better life for themselves and their families?

LOL, this is really funny: ethny, a racist who talks about "masturbating" other posters and wants to "stomp their peckers" and throws insults all over the place, when cornered, he starts yelling "help me mommy, they're not being civil to me!"

ethny, keep talking, you keep making an even bigger fool of yourself. I enjoy watching :-)

diva girl, just for you:

Q: Why didn't the racist cross the road?
A: He was afraid of the other side.

Q: What's the difference between a racist's house and a porcupine?
A: With the porcupine, the pricks are on the outside.

Have a lovely evening, dd.

A Black person can not be and is not a European, he/she might consider herself/himself a European ; a "paper" European. Europeans are white and have clear delineated blood lines.Accusations of racism are puerile and stupid .Facts are facts. The multiculturalist, the pluralist accuses those who disagree with his views as a racist. The racist can return the compliment by accusing his accusers of racial nihilism or genetic criminals.

The jus sanguinius law ought to be restored in its full glory. The right of blood makes one a citizen not the place of birth. A donkey might be born in a stable, that does not make it a horse. Several hundred thousand chinese immigrants with citizenship rights in Greece would be sufficient to snuff out Greece as a nation state and convert it into a Bazaar.Or does anyone think that the chinese would metamorphose into Greeks ? Two million Turks in Germany ? Has anyone thought the cataclismic consequences of half that number of muslim immigrants in Greece ?

We need more scribes like Ethnocentric, he not only makes his points with telling elan, based on study and research, but also reacts with vigour and venom against dilettante amateurs who are the standard bearers of fictional dogmas and always shielding behind high sounding phrases like " equality, fraternity, tolerance" and other pseudo human rights lore.

These amateurs think that by producing emetic sentences, repeating parrot fashion what they have imbibed in indoctrination centers is enough to convince and win arguments.

What we have here is a foretaste of things to come if the tide of the "Barbarians" ( Gyge's quote) envelops Greece. Greeks ( just like it is happening in France or the U.K) will not be able to air their opinions without being castigated with name calling and vilified with opprobrium for their thoughts. We are entering a new dark age and some of us seem to be pleasantly happy about the prospect.

A Greek flag bearer in Greece, an Albanian flag bearer in Albania, a Turkish flag bearer in Turkey, there is no conflict in this simple fact.

Thanos, I posted my reasoning here. Ethny is a racist and I have no respect for racists, they're a joke.

I can see that my attitude bothers you however, so enjoy ethny on your own.

"A Jamaican Black will never be an Englishman"

Now you really have lost the plot, ethncentrist.

A british citizen is british regardless of how many generations have been british, the colour of his skin, his religion, his ethnicity or what he likes to eat for breakfast. This is not some liberal bla bla.(whatever you like to call it) It is fact.

Perhaps, you would find something interesting if you went to Jamaica and talked to some people there. When I was there, one of the things the people are most proud of is the fact that if you were born in Jamaica, you are a Jamaican. They are proud of their national motto "Out of Many One People"

ethnocentrist, Yuh tuh fass

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Thanks Zorkie. I did indeed have a great evening out with friends and away from this blogging quagmire. It was refreshing and revitalising to have a lively and civil conversation. I don't always see eye to eye with with my Greek friends and we have heated discussions on these same issues but I am never insulted by them. That's the big difference with what goes on here.

Having to defend my background is perhaps, the hardest part about being in this discussion. To be told I am not european because I am black actually hurt. I know ethnocentrist (and the others) are just sad cases but it surprised me how much their comments and opinions actually got to me personally.

Anyway, I've had great support from my friends, virtual and real, who have urged me to keep writing. So that's why I'm back here.
Thanks to all of you.

Back to the original discussion. I haven't noticed yet, in the media, any arguments arising this year on who will carry the flag. Has anyone else? Maybe, we have moved on?

To Thanos,

I am obliged to reply to your question since it has been addressed as such, however I thank Ethnocentrist for having provided most of the reponse.

I will restrict myself to a few lines.

Thanos,

a nation is not just a cultural continuity, it is a biological continuity, if you reject this outright there is little point in me continuing.

The desire to see one's people survive and prosper is natural, healthy, and moral. Nor need it imply the slightest hostility towards other groups. I'll provide a parallel : I love my children more than I love the children of strangers. I love them not because they are more intelligent or better looking( although on aesthetic grounds alone I have reason to want my grandchildren to look like my grandparents; I don't want them to look like Anwar Sadat , Whoppy Goldberg or Admiral Yamamoto) or more gifted or more musical or more athletic than everyone else.I love them because they are mine, and I make tremendous sacrifices for them I would never make for anyone else. This does not mean I am hostile to the children of others. But my children come first.

We have larger loyalties that are analogous to our feelings for our children. Whether it is our nation,our ethnicity, or our race.
Our nation or race is, in effect, our extended family in the largest sense, and our feelings for our extended family are a dilute, but broader version of what we feel for our close kin.

Who will sing our songs, pray our prayers,celebrate our heroes, honour our traditions, venerate our ancestors, love the things we love ??? A Black from Jamaica ? or a Pakistany from the Punjab ? or an Arab from Nubia ? or a Turk, or an Albanian ???

Only our family, our extended family. Only our extended family will carry our civilization forward in a meaningful way. Only the biological heirs to the people who created a civilization ( Renaissance, enlightnement, european values ?, you made allusions to them )have ever maintained, cherished, and advanced that civilization.
In this dark phase of our history never before have we been psychological unmanned.
We are the only dupes who pretend to believe that if our country fills up with the children of others rather than our own children, it will still be our country. This delusion , if it persists, will be our death knell (and there will no necessity to go down like the Titanic).
The fundamental interest of a any nation state, or race is survival as a people. We have an absolute right to be us, and only we can be us.

We have a right to be left alone in our homelands , to take part in the unfolding or our national identities free of the unwanted embrace of people unlike ourselves.
It is fashionable ( IN WHITE COUNTRIES ONLY) to argue that racial or national loyalty is just not outmoded but wrong. That is the abiding bigotry of our age.

Let's hope it dies as quickly as it has grown, for unless we are able to rekindle what our ancestors took for granted ( a sense of the larger biological connectedeness to nation and culture) our destiny will be oblivion .... then no one will care who carries the Greek Flag since Oxi day would no longer exist.

Compared to the past, I don't think I would call modern Greece an advanced civilization, no. I see modern Greeks and much of their behavior as meaning these Greeks really shouldn't breed. But I've been saying the same thing about Americans for a long time as well.

The reality about the immigrants carrying the flag on Oxi day is the fact that immigrants are surpassing Greek children in academics. What does that tell you? I've said repeatedly I don't think immigrants should carry the flag, that it is a right of the Greek children, but in the end, I don't think that is what Greeks should be worried about. Greeks need to be worried about why their children aren't at the head of the class. To say "well, if we had never allowed these immigrants here in the first place they would be at the head of the class" doesn't cut it.

Somewhere, somehow, Greeks have lost something. That was my only real disappointment in moving here. I expected more of the descendants of such great people.

To all you Fascist pigs who are writing your poison on this post, who have arguments as intelligent as your single cell brains allow, to you prototype gas chamber operators, to the general hysterical statistic quoting, pseudo intellectual xenophobes, to you the ethnocentric, genetically pure, inbreds, to you genocidal armchair Right-wingers, dreaming about the day you take the world over and make it pure and clean and white, I leave Mr Cavafy the last word:

Waiting for the Barbarians

What are we waiting for, assembled in the forum?

The barbarians are to arrive today.

Why such inaction in the Senate?
Why do the Senators sit and pass no laws?

Because the barbarians are to arrive today.
What laws can the Senators pass any more?
When the barbarians come they will make the laws.

Why did our emperor wake up so early,
and sits at the greatest gate of the city,
on the throne, solemn, wearing the crown?

Because the barbarians are to arrive today.
And the emperor waits to receive
their chief. Indeed he has prepared
to give him a scroll. Therein he inscribed
many titles and names of honor.

Why have our two consuls and the praetors come out
today in their red, embroidered togas;
why do they wear amethyst-studded bracelets,
and rings with brilliant, glittering emeralds;
why are they carrying costly canes today,
wonderfully carved with silver and gold?

Because the barbarians are to arrive today,
and such things dazzle the barbarians.

Why don't the worthy orators come as always
to make their speeches, to have their say?

Because the barbarians are to arrive today;
and they get bored with eloquence and orations.

Why all of a sudden this unrest
and confusion. (How solemn the faces have become).
Why are the streets and squares clearing quickly,
and all return to their homes, so deep in thought?

Because night is here but the barbarians have not come.
And some people arrived from the borders,
and said that there are no longer any barbarians.

And now what shall become of us without any barbarians?
Those people were some kind of solution.

Constantine P. Cavafy (1904)

"Flux above is trying to warn us not to offend because they "may leave"

I think maybe you should read the Cavafy poem again. Nil points for interpretaion.

To ethno
As I suspected the whole poem, (by a very great Greek poet indeed) went right over your single pixel intellect. Never mind. To reiterate: I am proud of being human, not where I come from or where I'm going. You obviously need a hell of lot of cusions to let you sleep at night.

He was Greek born in Alexandria, Egypt

Ethno...that picture is not of a Canadian classroom but a local youth centre...the St. Jamestown Youth Centre. It's indicated by a sign in the upper left hand corner of the photo. And I am quite happy to see their beautiful, smiling faces. As for the ethnic composition of my classrooms in my school...it was pretty much the same...except instead of Africans and Asians, they were Lebanese, Indian and Greek, Czech and Polish.

Race is real, race is durable. Japan asserts her identity, her racial identity, congratulations to the Japanese for protecting their genes and the practice of racial hygiene. The Japanese minister Aso declared that :"Japan is one nation, one civilization, one language, one culture, one race. There is no other nation that has such characteristics" ( if I had ommited the word Japan, it sounds very much like Greece) This political correcteness ( political cowardice) and the brotherhood of man, and the mendacious lie that race does not exist and populations are intercheangeable it's a dogma accepted and implemented in white countries ONLY. Immigration/invasion into white countries by non whites it's a monstrosity of diabolical dimensions . In its trail this invasive incursion brings widespread miscegeneation in Europe . If unchecked, stopped and reversed, it can only mean the end of whites as a distinct people, only of whites. Whites are fewer than ten percent of the world's population and in a few generations they wouuld be gone. The other races, black, brown, yellow, far more numerous than whites, would remain intact.

A catastrophe is threatening our living space, something our ancestors spilled and bled white for us to inherit.

Immigration of the dark/brown/yellow masses into Europe is the cancerization of the social fabric of our societies. When the thirld world consolidates its invasion of the European homelands ( I trust we Greeks can prevent out country from being swept under)a genocidial machinery would have then been established. Already we witness entire European neighbourhoods being ethnically cleansed by non white hordes. In France alone 20.000 cars are firebombed each year by "accultured" ( they have the audacity and shamelesness to call themselves Frenchmen) muslim gangs.
Are Greeks going to wait for this subculture to enter their society ?

The flag issue on Oxi day is the tip of the iceberg. The foreigner has been allowed and tolerated to have become a political factor thanks to our Psychotic Mafia governing us.Wrong, a thousand times wrong .

Greece fought mighty empires in our history, brought light and civilization ,evicted the Mongol Turks after a 400 year occupation, repelled the Italian -German invasion, and now we seem to be powerless to prevent our small homeland from being burglarised by hordes of brown,black, and yellow Barbarians ( thanks Gyge for the term) and steal our flag on Oxi day .

"burglarised by hordes of brown,black, and yellow Barbarians ( thanks Gyge for the term) and steal our flag on Oxi day "

Justiniano, resorting to repeating the "babarian" theme is a bit immature don't you think?

If you had actually read the article, the flag is carried by the student with the top grade. It is not stolen from you.

I can't believe I'm making the 97th reply on this blog. It seems the comments have spiraled so beyond the original blog theme, it's unreal.

But as I see it, this is the way things are at the moment. The kid with the highest grade gets the honor to carry the flag. If they want to carry it, great. If they don't, pass it onto the kid who does. If Greek parents have a problem with an immigrant carrying the flag, well encourage your kid to actually do well at school next year so (s)he can have the honor. Don't bitch because your kid didn't make the grade.

What really amazes me is there are people in this thread expressing opinions on Greece, Greeks, immigrants in Greece who have absolutely no idea whats going on here. I sometimes wonder who or what their sources are. I'm guessing the internet or possibly friends who tell them on the phone "things are getting so bad here"

These kinds of people wave around their USA / Canadian / British passports and then still claim to be Greek. That doesn't wash with me. I don't buy into this 'Greek-American', 'Greek-Canadian' or 'Greek-Australian' rubbish. These people's parents jumped ship and decided to have and raise their kids in a different land. There kids probably visited Greece but will have seen no more of Greece than your average tourist.

These kinds of people I believe are foreigners. Although these foreigners complain about 'legal' immigrants who live in Greece. It absolutely amazes me.

I think as with any arguement, if you want to see if it holds water. You can take it to the simplest form. If you believe legal immigrants in Greece should pack up and go home (wherever that is) then surely with the same arguement, all the immigrants in the States should do exactly the same thing but that wouldn't happen because the states offers those kinds of people too good a lifestyle.

Anyway I think the comments have gone round in circles many times now. I don't really think there's anything new to say.

It seems to me that some individuals are having problems when I refer to foreigners of the wrong sort as Barbarians.

It has stimulated discussion and I see a profusion of messages which show a keen interest on the subject. I am happy to see the real Greek spirit standing up in a non compromising, non negotiating stance on the Flag issue.

The subject has touched a raw nerve showing how deep the issue is and the awareness thereof . The thread has become very lively and instructive.


It brings forth the degree of healthy rejection Greeks have for an invasion pattern, which has has spiralled out of context, and it is aiming at the invasion of our soil, under the guise of a refugee, assylum beggars, or some other convoluted contortion of a dsignation which reduced to its bare bones sends a message of " I am here to stay, you have an obligation to welcome me, and I shall dispossess you of your country and replace your people piecemeal because I have thousands and thousands more from where I hail waiting to follow me".

It also betrays the situational crisis that the immigration issue is no longer a problem to be addressed over a cup of coffe but it has now become a matter of life and death struggle for the nation. Carrying the flag is a side issue of the larger drama unfolding before our eyes. There are many who don't see it in that light;if they don't care about their homeland, their nation, their race, their ancestors, their legacy, neither will the Barbarian. Demography is destiny.

It is unfortunate that some contributions display a lighthearted vein in appearing to treat our national tribulations in a disdainful manner. Comparing the emmigration projects that build and developed the newly discovered continents , continents that were discovered by Europeans built and turned into flourishing oasis by European immigration, to our invasion by the Barbarians is a fundamental error of judgment.

The european emmigration built nations and countries, the present immigration patterns carries the seeds of destruction and decay within. Otherwise take a look at street scenes in Athens, Madrid, London,Paris etc.

It is only from 1970 onwards that an "immigration problem" has reared its ugly head in the West. The basis on which immigration suddenly has become a major issue ( immigration was never a problem before when it was European immigration) is thanks to the opening of doors, a mistaken and grievous error, to the inexhaustible masses of the thirld world non-white immigration.

Anyone proposing, defending ,aiding and abetting non white invasion into Greece, is doing a disservice to his nation and his race. Immigration, like the one we have now, is a scourge our nation can dispense with, we have a large unemployed and underemployed pool of Greek nationals. Who is thinking about them ? Definitely not the Barbarian, nor our august ministers in government.
Greece is not Australia, Greece is our beutiful land inherited by greeks for greeks and greeks for the diaspora. We are not a project nation, we are not in the enterpirse of building a nation like Australia, Canada, USA, new countries devoid of centuries old history and traditions.

The same crisis affects other nations in Europe and like some contributions have made clear time is running out.

"My parents and most others who are of my parents generation did NOT "jump ship". They left shortly after the civil war and Greece was not a rich country then (nor is it really now) and their choice was either starvation or to leave."

I think this is the way most immigrants arrive in a foreign country.

"yet have travelled back home all the time, maintain our language, maintain our culture, maintain traditions, spread them out for others to enjoy"

And this is how most other immigrants bahave in their adopted country.

If I had said the same thing I would expect half a dozen people would have jumped down my throat. It always seems that there are different rules for everyone else.

Oh and I wanted to be the 100th comment on this post. Congratulations to SeaWitch on the longest and most controversial post on a Greek blog.

Oops, Thanos beat me to it while I was writing with two more posts. Damn.

I still think the Greek nationalists are missing the crucial point. Why are these so-called "barbarians" taking Greek jobs and doing better in Greek schools and "taking over" Greece? Because, perhaps, Greeks aren't good enough.

Ethno himself admits that to make a good living, to help the Greek economy, to put back more in his country than Greeks who live on Greek soil, he has to live and work in the U.S. Greeks who live in Greece can't make enough to contribute properly, aside from taxes (well, except for people in the government who take bribes and steal money and whatever they are doing to have a good life, but I highly doubt they put it back into the Greek economy).

This reality distresses me, and I am not Greek, but someone who has spent her life reading and studying about Greeks (granted, ancient Greeks but still). I think it is a damn shame for a society that was so integral to the "birth of civilization" is failing so miserably in modern life.

Nationalists will claim this is because of the immigrants, but is it really, or is this just a way to make excuses for what Greeks can't (won't) do?

You need to screw your head on straight boy. In your incessant yearning for that next party, nite club, sexcapade, you've lost sight of the fact that it is YOU who has become NON-Greek, or at least an embarrassment to the history of Greece and not us "foreigners".

Mmm... a sexcapade, chance'd be a fine thing! Where would I get me one of those :-)

"I knew when I was writing that post I would have to answer to you"

I don't think you answered though? You just came back with some more unrelated "facts"
I was asking how your parents emmigration differed from the vast majority of immigration to Greece including my own. And how your behaviour of keeping your customs and traditions in your adopted country would have forced a different response if I had said it.

A real answer would be appreciated. I also don't think dismissing ellasdevil because he may or may not be young is very clever. He doesn't agree with you that's all.

To Thanos and his italics.

I recommend you do not copy someone else's text and introduce your italics. It is a sign of an indolent attitude and lack of ethics.

Hernan Cortez, Francisco Pizarro, Cuernavaca, Garay, Pedro Mendoza, Pedro Valdivia ,Osorio, these were conquistadores, these were real european men who vastly outnumbered by the savages they encountered, (savages, decadent left overs of what they tell us were mighty Aztec,Maya or Inca empire, empire's in which human sacrifice, cannibalism and filets of tender virgin's heart were served as desserts at Monctezuma's, Atahualpa's banquet tables ) exerted enormous human energy and sacrifices to conquer a continent to legate it to their descendants, crown, king and European mankind. The jesuits and religious orders followed them and built the South American continent.Where swamps existed, cities were created, followed with a vigorous program of european immigration the empty land was populated and civilization introduced.Yes it was European civilization where deserts and deserts of empty land were discovered, colonized and settled.

It was European immigration, whites that built and developed the continent, not Africans, not Chinese, not Indians, not Arabs nor Pakistanies.

Today's European men who pen missives, copying texts and adding italics ( with a superficial statutory sprinkling of politically correct historical fiction)would have given up the quest at the first gust of wind . Cortez's famous "noche triste" 120 valiant spaniards, ( not of the kind that will fold their arms at the avalanche of a few hundred African invaders at Ceuta and Melilla) thwarted and army of 6000 Aztec warriors, made their exit from the then Mexico City and later return to conquer it. These men were men of a race that recognized and enemy when they saw one, men who were loyal to their race and nation. Heroes, real heroes, not patsies.

To call them Animals is the supreme folly of an ignorant mind.

To those compatriots who wish to see their country conquered the best plan of action is to do nothing, stay as you are. We have an effective government that is leading us down to the border of the abyss, multiculturalism, multiracialism, racial mongrelization, degeneracy of our moral values, distortion of our thousand year old history, are the golden pearls of diversity.

Stay calm, Karamanlis, Papandreu and the current political clique are taking us to a destiny where many of our enemies failed to take us in the past through force of arms.

Soon the rebirth of the Second Ottoman Empire would be rolling across Europe, we in Greece will be the first to feel the brunt of its deadly weight. What the Ottomans failed to achieve by force of arms, they'll accomplish their goal through the immigration gate to Europe. Islamization would follow.

A nation without nationalism is like a body without a soul.

If the issue of immigration and flag bearing is put to a referendum, the overwhelming majority of Greeks would vote for sending the Barbarians home, keeping Greece Greek and the flag to be borne by a Greek.

But the government lackeys are not short sighted, a referendum on visceral issues which does not conform with the Globalists agenda would be tantamount to detonating a grenade under their soft and cushy bottoms.

Under such scenario the race traitors ,trucklers, gracchite , Pussyfooters and nation sell outs would be isolated and bereft of any support.

"120 valiant spaniards, ( not of the kind that will fold their arms at the avalanche of a few hundred African invaders at Ceuta and Melilla) thwarted and army of 6000 Aztec warriors,"

Armed only with a sharpened piece of fruit.

Ethno,

Stop being stupid? It bothers you that I don't feel the need to bitch at you and go round in big circles? Your first responce just made me laugh. Not all of it because there's a part of it that gave me food for thought but the rest did. It was obviously a personal attack but big deal. I can live with that without the need to hit back.

However thank you for your concern as to my life. I'll give u a couple of details. I'm 25, with degree and masters and working quite happily for the Greek subsidary of a well known international telecommunications company.

As for blogging, I don't have time to write lots and lots of 18 pagagraph replies as believe it or not, I actually have better things to do.

So feel free to attack or nitpick at what I've just wrote. I'm sure it'll just make me smile.

To Ethnocentrist
In case you are under any misapprehensions, the word you use as your tag does not exist. You can be ethnocentric, though god knows why anyone would, but Ethnocentrist, no.
Secondly if you honestly feel happier thinking anyone who doesn't agree with your poisonous, narrow, single cell brain, is a Marxist then you are an even bigger fool than you seem, although god knows that would be hard.
What scarfalonius says is very clear. He asked you a simple question, are you willing to do what you advocate others to do, namely send millions to their death because you want to keep your race pure. If that is indeed what you think, just come out with it and then go form a party. We'll meet on the battlefield. If you are not, go play baseball with your kids and get off trying to sound like a well read intellectual, it doesn't come off. You just make yourself look more and more foolish.

To Thanos

Your post has not touched me at all, erase such preconceived notion from your mind. We are all Greeks after all, blood brothers, we might have our petty differences but our common ancestry unites all in the background.

I simply don't take kindly to plagiarism in any form,in any context,anywhere. A plagiarist is like a common thief.

Your education about the Spanish history of the conquest and civilization of the America's is shallow and non existent,it is laden with grave emotionalism giving the impression that it's sources are based on Hollywood fiction movies and books written by revisionist historians post 1945.

Everything white is bad, everything white has to be devalued, whites have to be made to feel guilty about their history, their past,( in order to facilitate their dispossesion) and in the words of a Harvard lecturer, Ignatief, "the white race needs to be exterminated".

I don't expect any student graduating from a Western university not to hold such a perverted and adulterated view of his own history. The barbarian's grip on education is suffocating.


If you wish to have a balanced perspective of the Conquistadores ,and their epic and glorious civilizational exploits,which makes any sane European feel proud of his heritage, you need to read and study authors from the 18th century and pre 1945 period.

In the square of Lima there is a statue to Francisco Pizarro ( "the Animal"). I would like you to write to the Peruvian authorities ( Peru is 60% indian,20% black, 15% hybrid.) and in special to their president, an Indian, and convey your impression that the Conquistadores were animals, and that the Peruvians should remove the statue of that Animal from the central square in Lima.


I almost fell off my chair when you compared the Ottoman Empire with the civilization crusade of the Spaniards. In most Latin American countries Spain is refered to as the mother country;there is a deep appreciation and underlying love for everything spanish.
I will not be surprised to hear you speak about Turkey being "our mother country". The Turk, the monstrous turk wiped us out of our ancestral homes in Byzantium,they committed genocide, Armenians suffered an even worst fate, Assyrians were made to vanished. So much for the civilizing Ottomans, civilizing with the scimitar, forcing wholesale populations to Islam,( 200000 Greeks massacred in the island of Chios,by the Grand Turk, a famous Dela Croix painting depicts the tragic episode)exacting blood tribute from the enslaved populations.

Today our beloved Greece is under siege, flooded with Barbarians tearing at our vitals and threatening our identity. European nations are wracked by the same diseases sapping their well being; many european nations are beginning to have their own minority problems ( falling native birthrates, unrestricted invasion and the testosterone explosion of the invader) spearheaded by their own liberal public opinion mills and their own insurrectionary Marxist, anarchists cabals. These problems will be compounded in the near future. It seems that if a nuclear war does not destroy us, race suicide will. A stentorian opposition to immigration is denounced as Nazism. Ridiculous but factual. Once that sobriquet is applied it's game set and match. A sophisticated way of applying censorship.

The earth's people are being herded into an ideological pen by advocates of globalism.
Obviously all men have similarities, just as they have differences. But they are never brothers . It is wiser to base our behaviour on this truth than to pretend otherwise. Our ability does not makes us fraternal. Fraternity applies to people who feel close to each other, people of similar race and culture.
To sell brotherhood to men and women of different races , separatede not only by genetics but by obvious differences in religion ,art, language and historical background , is an exercise in futility.
This brotherhood based on slogans, ( Sloganeering by liberals, communists, anarchists, race deniers,Boasian fraudsters )not genes , will snap under the least pressure. The bortherhood of men has a pretty sound, like liberty, fraternity, equality, but at the bottom it is an "ignis fatuus" that has led us, Europeans, and continues to lead us into a quicksand of broken hopes and promises. Communists called upon the proletariat to rise up up and cast off its chains . All such words do is deceive good men by overloading their hearts with false expectations.

In our struggle for existence, and in particular in our Greece there are nobler and higher aims such as preparing to climb the next rung in the evolutionary ladder. Just as homo sapiens evolved from Homo erectus and homo erectus from early hominids ,and earlier hominids from primates , Homo supersapiens "must evolve" from homosapiens. This evolution will be brought to a standstill if we in Greece decide to ignore it's danger warnings, welcoming hordes of aliens into our houses, to bed down with our daughters and sons ,to cohabit and dilute our blood pool is a sure way to stop us from climbing higher.
The alternative to upward evolution is downward and retrogade evolution. Our civilization can slip back into barbarism and remain permanently in reverse gear. The possibilities for us downgoing are endless, the chances for us upgoing are limited.
The scene in some of the world's largest cities suggests that man is already degrading into a more primitive species.

If thanks to some beneficial mutation man has the ability and the will to make the quantum jump into a higher evolutionary grade, the question arises : From which ethnic group will he emerge ?
We Greeks need to be mindful about this race, competitive race.
Westerners, us Greeks, need to put on a new pair of glasses with which to view the world, knowing full well that for an introductory period new glasses are an unconfortable fit. Even if the West collapses as a result of multiracialism ( we Greeks don't have to suffer the same fate) and multiculturalism imbedded in contemporary liberal/anarcho/comunist theology , we Greeks in our small but homogeneous Greece can weather the storm and continue our evolutionary progress.
Should whites ,whose suicidal birthrate has declined to well below the replacement level, go under, the evolutionary Trek will come crashing to a halt.

We require realism and cool thinking heads. Whether one likes it or not Race is a central element in individual and group identity and must not be ignored.
A number of conclusions derive from the above position. A realistic evaluation of race leads to the conclusion that race and culture are inseparable. Some individuals can fully embrace a culture established by people of a different race, but most can not.
This is why race is the most volatile social fault line in a any country ( non homogeneous country) and why the current dramas of "Tolerance","multiculturalism","inclusion" etc, are almost always about race.

The immigration issue has to do with the one-sided advancement of non whites into white territories, Greece also being a target,that makes the current dynamics of race and immigration unacceptable and even dangerous to whites. Today in white countries we have antidiscriminatory laws, this is tantamount to placing the native in his own house in a straight jacket and gagging him. The whites have to witness the rape of their living space and say nothing.

I was speaking to a non orthodox foreigner, with a school going son. I asked him what he thought about Oxi day and the controversy surrounding the Greek flag in school ceremonies. I had an interesting reaction, I won't repeat the disrespectful remarks he made about Oxi day and his comment that his son, a very good student indeed, will not wish to carry the Greek flag, but if he is chosen to he will reluctanctly bear the greek flag as a national of his land and not as a Greek.

We were always an ethno state, a nation state for our ethnic greeks.
When did we start going off the rails ? Why do we find ourselves living this dreadful nightmare ?
In the 60's when I was reading in the U.K, us Greeks kept repeating to ourselves that the racial degeneration taking place in Britain ( they were being pumped with human residue from Asia and the flotsam from Africa and no englishmen relished that fact) would never ever be visited upon us greeks. How wrong we were.
Mighty storms are building up on the far horizon. The end times for white countries might follow one of these scenarios.

1) As soon as non whites outnumber whites in previously white countries, law and order will collapse. A scenario such as the whites living in South africa would be replicated.A switch from representative government ( do we have one today ?) to a military or tribal dictatorship which will lead former white nations and the West back to a new Dark age.

2) Marxists, Trotskytes, anarchists and other international minded disaffected groups will terrorize heterogenous masses to substitute class hatred for their racial hostilities, thereby making it possible to install a dictatorship of the proleteriat which will hold on to its power and privileges by handing over ever greater sums of the countr's diminishing wealth to non whites.

3) A break up in the former white nations along racial lines, accompanied by a large scale relocation of populations, will confine Europeans and their descendants overseas to a much smaller living space. This is the only course of events which could eventually lead to a world or continent of white and non white nations, thereby allowing "western civilization" to survive in microcosm, if not in macrocosm.

A mortifying scenario.

Let us not deceive ourselves that because most of us are not hungry when we go to bed, that because our homes stay smug and dry when storms and cold fronts move in, that because most of us somehow hang onto our jobs, all is well. Some of the healthiest - looking individuals we pass in the street have cancers, real or psychological, rotting away their bodies or minds.

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Just something I've been thinking about today. looking at MYSELF and questioning MY thoughts.

"Or Harry Enfield's "Stavros" character? Doesn't that bring connotations of "greasy, kebab-chomping greeks"?"

I found this post today on a racism in comedy forum and it got me thinking. I was one of those people who pissed myself laughing at Stavros who, back then, was my only knowledge of a Greek person (in the 80's)

The complicated issue of racism often doesn't come from hate exactly, but a crude stereotyping of groups of people. I grew up in a mainly white town in England where you went to "George's" for your fish and chips ( a staunchly British meal)

[Aside: Ok , most of the kebab shop owners etc were, in fact, Greek Cypriot BUT we didn't know anything else of Greece or the Greeks.]

My idea of Greek people and their culture was formed by these images/caricatures A Greek was someone who worked in a kebab shop, was hairy, greasy and uneducated, had some funny insights into the world, but was basically foreign. Sweet at best. An object of amusement mostly.

We laughed. A lot. At Stavros. For some people of my generation, he remains their only knowledge of Greeks.
Harry Enfield was undoubtedly right-on and liberal. But he spawned a character who remains etched on our minds. The funny foreigner ( insert at will: greek, albanian, russian, turk, pakistani, jamaican bla bla bla)

I have had friends/family say, ( too recently), "ooh the Greeks, they could do with a good wash"
OR "They're not very bright are they?"


It's not funny when the prejudice is directed at you but even less funny when we have colluded in the stereotyping of whole groups of people.

This all got me thinking because of the sh*t directed at me. But what has been my participation in this false view of the world?

My admission is that I laughed out loud at the silly Greek kebab shop stereotype of my youth. What's your admission?

"Gyge, Justiniano, Peleus, and Manolis." I think they are secretly all you, ethnokid? Ha

White nations everywhere are vanishing as the number of non whites increases. The chains that bind us whites everywhere ( Trotskytes marching in the streets of Buenos Aires waving the red flag in December 20th 2001 before the economic implosion that devastated the entire Arg. white middle class, joined by the Guevaristas and other communist wild dogs , using the filthy illegal immigrants from Paraguay, Bolivia and Peru as shock troops toppled the elected democratic government of De la Rua and installed the Duhalista/Lenicov interim Marxist /Totskyte interim dictatorship)are ideological chains, false beliefs.

The false belief is simply to comprehend that all races are equal. This is a lie. Should we really beleive that violent and stupid africans are our equals because the mass media portray them as such ? Have we ever been to Africa ? Unfortunately , it's not even necessary to go there because parts of our European major cities have been africanized until they resemble stinking sewers. If the non whites invading our homelands were wearing uniforms we'd be shooting at them, but since they aren't, we let them walk straight into our territory, settle in, steal from us , marry or rape our daughters and bastardize our race in the process. To stop this invasion of non-whites we need only to recognize the truth and then act on it. France is not France if it's populated by Africans and Arabs. Everything you will have loved about France will not survive when culture diversity has turned it into a cosmopolitan One World dung heap. Faboulous French food and fashion will no longer be French when they make way for shish kebabs and burkas. The myth of racial equality, egalitarianism is a lie. Let the truth sink in before we all sink and let the color of our skin be our uniforms.

Ethocentrist,Wotan, Gyge please keep writing, you are a breath of fresh hope and inspiration in the polluted atmosphere of intelectual masochism of the present.

There are those who relish and gloat at the thought of seeing Greece trampled under the foot of the Barbarian, portraying themselves as "modern", "progressive thinkers" "avant garde" "humanists" and other schatological epitehts. These sham erudite apes will not be able to hold forth an argument with the likes of you, however they hide behind stylish prose heaping abuse at their opponents and displaying their assinine incomprehension at events and circumstances surrounding our homeland and that of other white nations.

This is a struggle, Oxi day is a vindication of our struggle and woe to those who stain the memory of our fallen heroes.

There should be no mercy with traitors and Ali Pasha's. Unfortunately amongst us we have many turcosporos blandly smiling a la turca whilst undermining our nation and state.

Oh manolis, and the like, shut up with the diatribe.Devious makes an interesting observation. WHAT DO YOU SAY?

What insane paranoia and ignorance has been uttered of late. I mean, seriously folks. Step away from the propaganda.

Ours is a solemn moment. We greeks stand at a crisis, a crisis greater and far more dangerous than that faced by our venerable heroe Metaxas in the hours before his historica Oxi to the Italian foreign minister at his home in Xifisias. Then we had an enemy, a Barbarian hurling itself against Hellas from abroad ; today we have the Barbarian in our midst. We must purge ourselves from the race pollutants of the thirld world variety if we are to remain true to ourselves.

The crisis embraces all White people. For unnumbered millenniums man has toiled upward from the dank jungles of savagery toward glorious heights which his mental and spiritual potentialities afforded him. Man's trail is littered with the wrecks of dead civilizations and dotted with the graves of promising peoples stricken by an untimely end.

Out of the prehistoric shadows the white races pressed to the front and proved in a myriad way their fitness for the hegemony of mankind. Two things are necessary for the continued existence of a race: it must remain itself and it must breed its best. Close watch of the breeding types is axiomatic.

Of course the more primitive a type is, the more prepotent it is.
This is why crossing with the negro are uniformly fatal.

There is an inmediate danger of the world being swamped by black blood. But there is a very inminent danger that the white race may be swamped by Asiatic blood.

The white man's very triumphs have evoked this danger. His virtual abolition of distance has destroyed the protection which nature once conferred. With the development of cheap and rapid transportation, nature barriers are down. Unless man erects and maintains artificial barriers the various races will increasingly mingle and the inevitable result will be the supplanting or absorption of the higher by the lower types. The present trends of immigration has a tendency of replacement of the more valuable by the less valuable elements of the population. All over the world , the civilized world racial values are diminishing, and the logical end of this disgenic process is racial bankruptcy and the collapse of civilization.

In Greece we can rescue ourselves from the threatening collapse, the plague of miscgeneation and population replacement of the high types by the lower , provided we exercise the same stern self discipline that inspired Metaxas to deliver his exalted Oxi to the ashen face Italian minister. Oxi to the invasion of Hellas, no more Pakies, bangladeshis, Vietnamese,Philipines, asylum seekers, pseudo refugees, Oxi to this subhuman detritus soiling the sacred soil of Hellas.

I , for one think this is interesting...

"Just something I've been thinking about today. looking at MYSELF and questioning MY thoughts.

"Or Harry Enfield's "Stavros" character? Doesn't that bring connotations of "greasy, kebab-chomping greeks"?"

I found this post today on a racism in comedy forum and it got me thinking. I was one of those people who pissed myself laughing at Stavros who, back then, was my only knowledge of a Greek person (in the 80's)

The complicated issue of racism often doesn't come from hate exactly, but a crude stereotyping of groups of people. I grew up in a mainly white town in England where you went to "George's" for your fish and chips ( a staunchly British meal)

[Aside: Ok , most of the kebab shop owners etc were, in fact, Greek Cypriot BUT we didn't know anything else of Greece or the Greeks.]

My idea of Greek people and their culture was formed by these images/caricatures A Greek was someone who worked in a kebab shop, was hairy, greasy and uneducated, had some funny insights into the world, but was basically foreign. Sweet at best. An object of amusement mostly.

We laughed. A lot. At Stavros. For some people of my generation, he remains their only knowledge of Greeks.
Harry Enfield was undoubtedly right-on and liberal. But he spawned a character who remains etched on our minds. The funny foreigner ( insert at will: greek, albanian, russian, turk, pakistani, jamaican bla bla bla)

I have had friends/family say, ( too recently), "ooh the Greeks, they could do with a good wash"
OR "They're not very bright are they?"


It's not funny when the prejudice is directed at you but even less funny when we have colluded in the stereotyping of whole groups of people.

This all got me thinking because of the sh*t directed at me. But what has been my participation in this false view of the world?

My admission is that I laughed out loud at the silly Greek kebab shop stereotype of my youth. What's your admission?"


The rest is kinda, bullsh*t intellectual bla bla.

To the Seawitch, thanks for your superhuman patience.
To Thanos for acting, and writing reasonably in the face of moronism, to the Diva for being sane, to scarfalonius for trying to humour the idiot-spawn, and to Ellasdevil for being one of the nicest people I never met.
To the ethno-mob, how do you sleep at night? And before you answer let me guess, you sleep fine, and you know why? Because you need brains to dream.

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Oh and by the way, to scarfalonius. Watch out the idiot-spawn have no sense of humour. WHOOSH! It's well over their dwarf brains.

And yes ethno I am a COMMUNIST-MARXIST-HIPPY-
DOPESMOKING-COLOURED-JEWISH-MUSLIM-
EVERYTHING-YOU-HATE-
AND-PROUD-OF-IT-TYPE.
STEW MOTHER@#$!ER.

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To Manolis
and the rest of your of your little mob...

There was a Greek-American blues player once who said, and I quote: "At first I thought you had to be Black to play the Blues. Then I thought you had to feel Black to play the blues. But then I realised that you had to be TREATED like a black person to play the blues"... and thats what you are everywhere else Greek boy. Just another nigger on the scrounge.

Justiniano...if you're going to plagiarize, find somewhere else to do it. Your last post can be found in its entirety here...http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/stoddard/rtc_3-12.html

If you can't come up with anything original to write, just post a link instead of rewriting someone else's thoughts and passing them off as your own. From what I've seen on other forums, I guess that's what the majority of racial separatists and white supremacists have to do. Their own education was the first victim in their race to win the racial superiority hoax of a competition.

Flux...I don't have patience for the rants unleashed in here which is why I gave up on posting further on this topic.

I can see a Marxist ideology, permeating the discussions. One can not engage in a dialogue with a Marxist, the Marxist will lead you into his dialectical doctrine, we are all aware what that means.

I am learning a good deal,through these postings, (some of them are really enlightening, others not so, and others... comment is redundant) and my conclusion is that a communist is a wound up megaphone booming slogans, slandering contrarian ideas and bringing the exchange of views to basement levels.

The aflictions overshadowing our land are not unique to Hellas, the malaise is spread worldwide where Europeans are concerned ,it impacts the white race. We Greeks are white, whoever refutes or rejects the fact is an ignoramus.
As a member of the white race we have to identify with such causes.
The communists are what someone else called Race nihilists.
Their ideas are obsolete and bankrupt yet they refuse to acknowledge it. It is in their nature to detract and destroy tradition, religion,family, race, nation.

I feel that Oxi day should be renamed Metaxas day. However it will not happen. Metaxas was putateviley a nationalist with a proclivity to sympathyse with the Axis powers( that in communist parlance is equating a great man to a devil) . And yet Metaxas chosed to fight the injustice emanating from his own sympathies. A communist can not grasp nor comprehend such a behaviour. It is a puzzling question to them.

Marxist ideology is driven to tear down down the "old and evil" values of Western Civilization ( Hellenic civilization) then once this wrecking enterprise is accomplished reconstruction follows in a supposedely new, correct and egalitarian society.
I am waiting to see where that egalitarian society is, it is not of this world.

I am told that in USA the media network is at the forefront of corrupting and undermining the white youth. I can not comment on that, but I have seen a blatant antiwhite slant in British TV, just as I see day after day anti greek and pro immigration drivel in our communications and media outlets.

Oxi day and immigration are intertwined. Immigration is a hot issue, it need not have been. We Greeks were fine until the end of the 80's.and now we have contracted the cancer that plagues all white nations. Now if we had a democratic government , genuine democracy, the voice of the electorate would be heard if given the opportunity. We did not have a referendum if we wanted the Euro, we did not have a referendum if we wanted to accept the EU constitution. We did not have a referendum to ask us if we need, want or welcome immigration. We don 't seem to be given choices. We are treated like members of a gulag. The govt. ram it down our throats. This immigration tag is a misnomer, the issue is much larger ( as aptly described by posters).

When I have to be occupied with a question of whether a foreign student is entitled to bear the Greek Flag, my reaction, and that of other healthy con nationals is to ponder if Greece is having an identity crisis.

I urge all non desirable foreigners, non assimilable xenos not to overextend greek hospitality ,to pack their bags and leave for other shores, go to Britain, go to France ( the first african nation in the European continent)go to Turkey , somewhere where you'll be welcome with open arms , but leave Greece to Greeks.

I'd rather be taxed 40% of my wages to cleanse Greece of undesirables, than be taxed 10% from my wages to provide asylum to the invaders.

ethnocentrist,

"That is until the following generations with people becoming doctors, lawyers, accountants, entrepreneurs, VCs, etc. You see, when we were oppressed, and we were to a degree and discriminated against, we took it and moved ahead. We didn't rape, murder, or burn down our neighborhoods and cities. We were civil and decent. What better revenge for the slight than becoming successful and giving back to the city/country for the opportunity"

...is no different to what other groups of people have done when they settled in britain. (For example Jamaicans, who were specifically invited)

There are a minority of people who rape, murder and they are criminals. The vast majority are law abiding respectful citizens.

I don't need an answer from you. I am sure you will not come up with anything I haven't heard before.

On Justiniano post - Well spotted SeaWitch.

I am not sure if you meant this, but it seems like you are saying that flux is the ranter here and the others are not? That's just my reading of it.

"Flux...I don't have patience for the rants unleashed in here which is why I gave up on posting further on this topic."

I hope people will continue to post here. I know I gave up at one point. But I then realised I could not let these people "win" just because they shout louder.

Pedia, leave gratuitous insults aside. Don't shoot the messenger but the message. What is this form of personal attacks by way of insults ? Have an argument say it, have an idea say it.

We had a civil war in Greece not long ago. It was as a result of a foreign invasion of our land. The manner in which some of the exchanges are being conducted (virulent communist venom; as usual cut from the same cloth as the scoundrel criminals who murdered my uncle)
might land us in another civil conflict, and again thanks to the Barbarians battening Greek territory. History repeats itself. As if we did not have our hands full with the Turks and moslems breathing down our necks next door, we are required by the Global masters to tolerate our obliteration through immigration.


We Greeks never learn. To collide, injure and slaughter each other for the sake of Barbarian ideologies and Barbarian interests.

Diva...sorry about the ambiguity there. Flux had thanked me for my "superhuman patience" and I just responded that I really don't have any patience for the rants and spiels which I why I kind of gave up on commenting. I did not mean to imply that Flux rants at all...in fact, all his posts are the complete opposite...they're quite succinct with no ambiguity and verbal hemmhoraging whatsoever. A prime example of it is here: "And yes ethno I am a COMMUNIST-MARXIST-HIPPY-
DOPESMOKING-COLOURED-JEWISH-MUSLIM-
EVERYTHING-YOU-HATE-AND-PROUD-OF-IT-TYPE. STEW MOTHER@#$!ER."
Thank God I agree with his position otherwise I think I'd be afraid. LOL Sorry for any confusion there.

I have read the right-wing postings on this blog and have gleaned this information from the long-winded collective arguments of the authors:

1. All non-whites are subhuman savages, and should be removed, post-haste, from the culturally and genetically superior countries of the West. There is scientific and statistical proof for the above, which abounds, if you open your eyes and read the right sources.

2. Western man, the White man, made everything that was worth the bother. All other cultures have contributed nothing positive to the history of mankind, ever.

3. The barbarian hordes are waiting for the opportunity to degrade, degenerate and destroy the purity of the white gene pool. And the liberals and lefties have been actively colluding with them to do so.

4. You have all read the true history of the world and have discovered the great Liberal- Lefty Axis' plot to systematically lie to the rest of the White world through schools and universities, and make them feel guilty for fabricated crimes against other races. You also have irrefutable proof that mixed blood equals corruption and degeneration. By inference suggesting that being inbred is inherently superior to mixing with those of other races, and that genetic science as we've known it, is also a charade. Therefore; Diversity is destruction, homogeneity is survival.

Let's see what else? Oh

5. Everyone who disagrees with this set of beliefs is a Marxist race-denier, who has been fully indoctrinated into the Liberal-Lefty plot, and is misguided by, or perhaps fully involved in the great plot against the White race.

From the above five articles of faith you have fashioned a set of arguments that are foolproof and irrefutable, and anyone who is stupid enough to call you on them is simply stupid, or worse is a barbarian him/herself.

Why did it take you so many thousands of words to state these simple beliefs?

Thank you once more Sea Witch for your kind words.

"Now, ANSWER MY QUESTIONS! As I have sat here with patience the best I could muster and tried to answer all of yours"

ethnocentrist (yes I have never shortened your tag into some banal insult even though you do it all the time)

You have not answered every question I have directed at you specifically. You certainly did not answer a specific question I asked you in my last post (Harry Enfield)

"ANSWER MY QUESTIONS!" was a general shout out to anyone who was listening as far as I can see. (Unless it was directed at someone specific which is not clear)No-one is under any obligation to answer a footstamping poster having a temper tantrum. Just because you have no answer to Flux (or to whoever this is directed at) and had to resort to insult and shouting, does not mean they are under any more obligation than you are to answer. I would feel differently if you would answer ALL the direct questions aimed at you.

From Hyperborean: "We Greeks are white, whoever refutes or rejects the fact is an ignoramus.
As a member of the white race we have to identify with such causes."

Greeks are white. So what? So are millions of other people on the planet. How is it that you and so many others seem to think that you have achieved something extraordinary by being born white? You got your white skin by a fluke of nature. And now that you've stated you're white...just what difference do you think your white skin will make in this world? It's ridiculous. Are you proud of your big toe, your left ear or your right kneecap? If you're going to be proud of something...make it something that you actually DID ... not what you were already handed by fate.

Scarf...your last paragraph was so good, it deserved to be repeated.

"The truth is, I won't pick up my baseball bat and meet you on the corner because I'm a bleeding heart liberal, fighting for the love of the huddled masses. I'll do it because I don't like you."

Points just don't get made any better than that.

Diva...you are so right. The voices of reason always seem to get drowned out by the voices of screaming banshees.

Ethno...with regards to your posts. I will say one thing. You haven't (to my knowledge) resorted to plagiarism or disjointed writing in order to express your views. I do appreciate that. You've also done your best to respond to most of the questions thrown at you here...something else that most people who subscribe to your beliefs don't do.

"...then reposted by the blog owner akin to a high school cheerleader when her football playing boyfriend wants to beat up another classmate, that is a sure indication that the argument is won"

I reposted that paragraph of Scarf's because I really do agree with him. Because he said he WOULDN'T resort to violence just because he didn't like you. I also like the fact that Flux does not back down, shrivel into a whimpering ball in the corner just because he has been insulted. He's not a fence-sitter. Neither are you for that fact. If you've read my posts on other blogs, then you will know exactly where I stand on the issue of human rights, xenophobia, and immigration. I've stated it dozens of time on dozens of sites including my own. If you agree with someone else...does that qualify you as a cheerleader? I became tired of the long-winded tirades that just rehashed the same old rants I've seen so many times on other forums...such as Justiniano's.

I've also agreed with you (and even complimented you) on several points that you've made as well. I don't think that qualifies as being your "cheerleader" either. I have not called YOU a screaming banshee.

As I've said before, this is not the only forum where you will find my posts. If you honestly think I post "closeted wrangligs", you have not read the rest of my blogs. I state my position very clearly UPFRONT AND CENTRE for the whole world to read if they want. And they have not changed or been diluted to appease anyone, anywhere. Your posts however, ONLY appear on other people's sites, like mine, Mel's, Diva's or Phylax's. My posts are never written "away from prying eyes"...if they were, why is it that I've received 200 replies to just this blog topic alone? Not to mention the responses from other blogs. That's why I have a blog site...I WANT people to read my posts otherwise I'd keep a little diary by my bedside for my eyes only. How you arrived at the conclusion that I only state my opionions in secret is, therefore, not validated.

Many people DO resort to vindictive, personal attacks on others...far worse than what I've seen in here and I was referring to them as well. Your posts aren't the only ones I read and this blog isn't the only place I make my stance clear.

ethnocentrist. "I don’t know who said it, but you are extremely self-absorbed. Your histrionics are legendary. You write about extremely sensitive things as a foreigner in a country that is kind enough to be your host and when confronted, quite harshly, you go running to your friends for rallying support. Rosa Parks you’re not. This isn’t for the meek and timid, I’m afraid. It’s all fun and games when your readers are of like mind..."

How dare you? You insult. You sulk. You stomp. You rant and then you sign off with a great diatribe about how reasonable and intelligent you (and all those who agree with you are) while the rest of us are sad little misguided fools. Yes. I gave up at one point. I was hurt. And I asked my friends for support. And yes, they urged me to keep writing. So if you see that as meek and timid, so be it. I have stood up to your bullying and insults without rudeness and attacks. I write from a personal point of view. That's how I write. If you see that as self-absorbed, so be it. I have never compared myself to Rosa Parks or any one else who has struggled long and hard to achieve change. I have a blog and I contribute to other people's blogs. I have never acted or written that I do any more than that. So please. Get off my back, have some respect and in the end, if you don't like people disagreeing with you, stop writing to blogs where you are going to find them.

I was over at Discarded Lies last night as you know. I haven't laughed so much in a long time. It was a relief after all the crap I have taken from you.

I hope this is the last post I will ever write to you.

There is a heavy dollop of Stone Age grunts,yawps and other forms of oral flatulence to stir up the ever restless thirld worlders.All we can hope is that these washed out white or pseudo white scribblers end up in the cannibal's pot ,once the fire is lit. Shameless racial renegades or reverse evolutionists.
Only a few of us can understand enough history to know that these invaders are inalterably different and have been programmed to destroy what they pretend to adapt to and absorb. We are being done in by the parasitism at the top and barbarism at the bottom.

China tightens the screws on racial eugenics, in contrast the West loosens it. China with 1.4 billion people have embarked on a massive , comprehensive eugenics program.
Assylum seekers, illegal immigrants, legal immigrants need not apply in any case, refugees , Helsinky watch, human rights violators, all out there heed the warning.China is unwelcomed territory for racial stragglers.
According to the a Chinese news agency source, the new laws are aimed at people likely to pass on congenital illnesses or defects to their children. Mandatory sterilization is enforced of the mentally retarded in the impoverished province of Gantsu.
The immediate goal of the local officials is to sterilize most of 360.000 mentally retarded residents.

Those crunching thuds you are hearing are the bodies of liberals who have fainted dead away at the mere thought of such a concept.
Wait to hear the cacophony of sounds hitting the air waves from the sclerotic western media, "Fascism, Hitlerism will dominate their fetid cries.
The chinese appear to be bringing compulsory population control onto center stage.

In the meanwhile their project plans for the peaceful conquest of the West gets into high gear. Millions of chinese rejects are going to be siphoned off to the West in the decades ahead.The sophisticated and efficient juggernaut of the criminal ring of people smuggling and people trafficiking attains promethean proportions.
The yellow Asian penetration will pose another life and death struggle for the European. Is this development a historical and racial process ? Yes it is.
The stronger ,more vital and more daring race pushes out a weaker one. To attempt to establish some sort of blame or guilt on the yellow tide it is as preposterous as piling obloquy on the Europeans for manifesting themselves against the invader and resist the conquest in the making by any means available.
Nature, a cold mistress, is unforgiving and cares nothing for human agony. The european expansion outside Europe was part of a natural process, the overflowing of the life force from its European cradle. Who cries when a lion brings down an antelope ? We recognize the kill to be a law of nature. Who begrudges the leader of a wolf pack his harem ?
Dishonesty in history is the worst sort of academic flim flam. Lies in the physical sciences are soon found out. Lies and mendacity about our past need to be uncovered, not to do so can warp and twist our understanding of the real world.

"There is nothing permanent but change" said Heraclitus, one man wins, another loses, one lives ,another dies, one procreates, another masturbates and watches his bloodline die out.
Life is no piece of cake, parties,cannabis, weeping sentimentality. Mother nature is red in tooth and claw. Her only interest in us is to see that we reproduce. How and when and where is not her concern.

There is no fairness in life, no mercy, no second chance. If we Europeans, we Greeks, allow Asians, blacks and mongrels to overhelm us and expel or exterminate us, few will mourn our dissapearance.

There will be no court of appeal when the land our ancestors, of Termopilae, Salamis, Misolonghi, gave their all to win is taken back from us, and we leave our children withour their birthright.
There will only be the grim smile of the Almighty pondering the foolishness of His creatures.

Justiniano, Good Grief. Not even going to bother.

On a lighter note, I will be hiding in my house tomorrow. Not because I hate parades (although I'm really not into them) I hate the low flying jets. They scare the knickers off me.

My son took part in the school "oxi day" celebrations today. I felt strange again for standing for prayers (out of respect for others) but not "doing my cross" but that's another story. Lots of the other parents are non- religious like me.

What was wonderful was to see the kids doing their play. The content was a bit uninspired but they enjoyed performing especially the bit where they outwit the german soilders to get bread to the Greek army.

As I scanned the crowd of proud parents and delighted kids, my mind wandered back to the venom and bile that has been spewed on this post.

In the school there are a few black, mixed- race greek children (with greek GRANDPARENTS for those who care about those things), there are greek children of russian, albanian and turkish descent, greek-american and at least one dutch greek kid. All of them sang and performed with such pride and exitement while their parents took pictures and video of the performance. And afterwards we wished each other a happy three day holiday and went home.

Now I am aware that underneath the smiles and waves there may be feelings of resentment and even hatred but it was the kids that got me feeling so happy. They really did charge into the playground happy. Together. They achieved something that kids care about. That they pleased their teacher, they pleased their parents, they did well and they had a great deal of fun doing it.

Call me a sappy liberal lefty peabrained softy marxist all you like.

It was a breath of fresh air after suffocating in here for such a long time.

I know this was just a fleeting moment and kids grow up and make different choices and decisions BUT, just for now, they were kids having a good time

Yes, I am well aware that other countries enslave people. I am well aware that the African slaves were enslaved by traders in Africa and sold to the white man. That white man can consider a person an object, regardless of whether or not "that was the way", is shameful.

I've had my share of right leaning tendencies. I make politically incorrect jokes. Everyone is my target, I judge myself and "my kind" as harshly as anyone else. But in the end, I don't judge people by the color of their skin, their religion, where they are from but by the type of person they are. By their intelligence, their kindness, their wit.

I can understand the immigration issue, even if I don't agree with the nationalistic side of it. The fact that there are refugees, so many, where do they go? Where should they go? Why shouldn't they have a chance? No, I don't think they should all necessarily come to Greece, or Italy, or Spain, or the countries where most end up.

As to the white supremacist notions of the nationalistic Greeks here, you do realize that, when push comes to shove, they Aryans don't consider Greeks to be white? Italians too. Your dark hair and eyes, all the hair, would be considered a stain. I've heard Aryans say that about Greeks and Italians all my life. It has been no secret that white supremacist groups have been recruiting well outside their "standard" for years now, even Jews, to expand their cause. God forbid "white power" ever wins, because there goes my husband. And probably me, even though I'm a WASP princess, because I joined with a "dirty" Greek.

As to all the who did what bad things in history arguments, what is the point really? The reality is that every race, culture, and religion has done very bad things. Are some worse than others? I don't really think so. I think, unfortunately, every race, every religion in the world is pretty much equal in this regard. We are ALL responsible.

You are right in one regard though - it is probably pointless for the leftist, Marxist, nameyourlabelhere people to keep fighting this fight for tolerance. But in the same regard, the other battles are just as pointless. People will continue being what they are. Even so, I won't stop feeling the way I do, just as the nationalists in our midst won't stop feeling the way they do.

Any healthy individual values his blood, his parents,his family ,his nation , his race first and foremost. Any person that wastes an ounce of energy philosophying about protecting and advancing the interests of other races other than his own is an altruistic murderer. The crisis is much deeper than it seems, a uniform mental conditioning to think an act in a standard fashion is the vogue. The masses , the mish mash mixing of high breeds and lower breeds require to adopt and internalize a uniform brutalized mass culture. (Any breed outside Europe is low breed, incapable of creating a civilization, maintaining it or advancing it)

Anyone calling for a greater safeguard of his racial gene pool is excoriated as mercilessly as possible. In that respect we Europeans have perhaps outmatched the Americans in their lassitude and racial torpor and genocidal program to brownwash the European racial genome. Not long ago , in England, a one Enoch Powell a professor of Ancient Greek,was pilloried and treated as an illiterate blackguard for vehemently opposing racial suicide before the onslaught of the Asian immigration.

The mass culture is spreading like a velvet sulphourous slime. Whether in England, Germany or Holland, the same Stone Age pop art dominates the exhibitions. The same excremental tinsel and hardcore pornography exercise their depredations on the theater. The same minority racial themes, the refugee, the asylum seeker, the immigrant obsess the literati. The same African syncopations echo through the dance halls and rock concerts,in supermarkets muzzaks, and backgroung jungle sounds in store and shops. In fact ,the more influential culture vultures now feather their nests all across Europe. Europe is being turned into a cultural catacomb.

Like the promoters of the Melting Pot fantasy, the salesmen of pluralism have misread history, which teaches that pluraslistic societies are static and an invitation to disorder and disaster. Historically disoriented, the voices of pluralism are also dramatically contradictory. They are opposed to racism in theory, but support black, brown and yellow racism in practice. They uphold group identity, but demand forced misgeneation, inclusiveness and integration.
Meanwhile the European social order totters, we in Greece are not beyond hope,along in the grip of racial tension which is both the cause and effect of pluralism and multiculturalism. The European mosaic with non white and non Europeans elements is turning into a monumental failure.

In Greece heroes like Metaxas are in short supply, Europe appears to have run out of them completely.

Like in 1941, Oxi to the invasion of Greece.Oxi to the Tsunami from the East, and the black and brown tide from the south.

Leftists are eager to judge the sins of whites from the past with present day ideology and morality. Yet, I have never seen any leftist judge any other race's trangressions of the past nor present. As I said in my last post, Africans are enslaving other Africans in Africa in this current day and age. That is NOW, 2005. Yet there is nary a wimper from the black race hustlers to this effect, nor from the white liberal bleeding hearts. They are monomaniacal and their targets are whites only.

Well, I've blogged and posted on other sites about things going on in Africa a few times. I have severe opinions about the Middle East and the Turks and how they treat people. I judge those things just as much as I judge any white transgressions. Obviously, I am more concerned with the shameful acts of the white man because I am white.

The thing is, you can have a country full of white people and still have problems. We can wipe every race save the whites off the face of the earth and we won't stop fighting. People are people. I won't ever exclude whites from any wrongdoing because, as I said, we are all responsible.

And if you really think Greeks are pure, white blood, think again. It isn't a scare tactic. It is reality.

By the way, I am really glad Justiniano has mastered the use of copy and paste. He is well on his way to learning how to use a computer!

If no culture outside Europe has had a successful civilzation, how do you explain the success of the Japanese?

Thanos is urging me to think. I will try to think for you Thanos, but spare me if I disappoint you.

There are some truths ( truth is unique, it does not evolve, if it were to evolve it was not truth in the first place ; therefore I have excrutiating discomfort at Thanos's reference to "old slogans and party leaflets" what party ? the communist party, the anarchist party of the mobocratic parties of contemporary times ?) which are so obvious that for this very reason they are not seen or at least not recognised by ordinary people.
In this line men without exception wander about in the garden of Nature; they imagine that they know practically everything and yet with few exceptions pass blindly by one of the most patent principles of Nature's rule : the inner segregation of the species of all living beings on this earth.

Any crossing of two beings not at exactly the same levels produces a medium between the level of two parents; this means that the offspring will probably stand higher than the racially lower parent but not as high as the higher one. Consequently it will later succumb in the struggle against the higher level. Such mating is contrary to the will of Nature for a higher breeding of all life. The higher breed must assert, dominate and not blend with the lower breed thus sacrificing his own greatness. Only the born weakling can view this as cruel, but he after all is only a weak and limited man.

(Extrapolate this across nations and you can obtain the phantasmagoria of contemporary Hades. The non-white flotsam projecting itself and hurling themselves against the citadels of the white men and civilization.Their banner is "equality. fraternity, sexual freedom, open borders, freedom of movement,human right, et al" . Alas all this panaceas of wisdom are in one way only, towards the white men environment and not toward the non-white living areas. A simple mathematical calculation by a 5th grader can yield the inescable result from such unnatural practices.)

Did I read someone speaking about wiping out of races ? Who is wiping who may I ask ? Who is proposing this so called wiping ? I don't see wave after wave of European white men invading Asian or African space mating with the natives and bastardizing them.

The inferior always predominates numerically over the best ( The Indians, Pakistanies, Chinese, African, they reproduce like rodents, and they must provide living space for their teeming millions of their coal black and dark critters, incapable of solving their own demographic contretemps, they expect the white men to sacrifice himself and resign his patrimony ), if both had the same possibility of preserving life and propagating, the inferior would multiply so much more rapidly that in the end the best would inevitably be driven
into the backgound.
The result of all racial crossing is therefore in brief always the following:

A. Lowering of the level of the higher races, the European white

B. Physical and intellectual regression .

Here of course we encounter the objection of the modern pacifist, lover of mankind, the champion of the human, as truly inhuman in its effrontery as it is stupid. Man's role to overcome Nature .

Millions thoughtlessly parrot this cosmopolitan ,egalitarian nonsense, though in doing so they dispose of no other weapon than an idea, and at that such a miserable one, that if it were true no world at all would be conceivable.

The immigration/invasion of Greece is non negotiable, and our Greeks are not cannon fodder for any multiracial experiment.

One of the writers has admonished me to "THINK" and also accuses me of not having read any books.

I think it was Thanos.

Thanos, would you kindly advise me what books do I need to read ?

Roots ?, the 25th hour ? Exodus ?. the diary of Anne Frank ? or "Walk to Freedom ?, or maybe Karl Marx manifesto, or "Fidel's march to Havana from Sierra Maestra ?

"The truth is, I won't pick up my baseball bat and meet you on the corner because I'm a bleeding heart liberal, fighting for the love of the huddled masses. I'll do it because I don't like you. "

Ethno...I think I misread his post when I thought he was saying he wouldn't pick up a baseball bat. Re-reading it again through your eyes, I must admit that you are probably right and that he would take a baseball bat to you because he didn't like you. I certainly don't advocate beating up people just because they don't like what someone else has to say. And for that, I owe you an apology for having misread his intention. For all the things we have disagreed, Ethno...I would never in a million years, beat you up for it (or anyhone else for that matter) nor would I condone anyone else doing so.

The student in question wht this frst came up was in fact also an Albanian citizen.

When we talk about immigrants in Greece this is not like immigrants in the US. EG The Albanian immigrants maintain homes and citizenship in Albania.

The Greeks are celebrating the response and fight against the Germans, Italians AND Albanians who almost univisally fought with the Nazis.

It is unfortunate that the issue focused on the youg boy, who certainly distinguished himself, but it is pretty much like questioning whyanyonoe would feel strange if a German kid, born in Germany, was to carry the flag at a celebration by the French or Polish resistance.

Races of people are not fungible material, therefore the homo sapiens umbrella covering all fornication and genocidal crossing under the sun is sure a remedy for disgenic catastrophe. The original core race is supplanted by a new and fangled form of a racial hybrid type.
In actual fact the pacifistic -humane idea is perfectly all right perhaps when the highest type of man has previously conquered and subjected the world to an extent that makes him the sole ruler of the earth. Then this idea lacks the power of producing evil effects in exact proposrtion as its practical application becomes rare and finally impossible. Therefore firs struggle and then perhaps pacifism. Otherwise mankind has passed the high point of its development and the end is not the domination of any ethical idea but barbarism,corruption and consequently chaos.

This planet once moved through the ether for millions of years without human beings and it can do so again some day if man forget that they owe their higher existence , not to the ideas of a few crazy ideologists,but to the knowledge and ruthless application of Nature's stern and rigid laws.
Everything we admire today , on this earth, e.g science,art, technology and inventions is only the creative product of a few peoples and originally perhaps one race, the European. On them depends the existence of this whole culture. If they perish , the beauty of this earth will sink into the grave with them.

All great cultures of the past perished only because the originally creative race died out from blood poisoning. ( Mix and cross a healthy Hellene with a mongol, an African, a Pakistani, a brown or yellow specimen and the blood of the Hellene has been irretrievably poisoned).
The ultimate cause of such a decline was their forgetting that all culture depends on men and not conversely ; hence that to preserve a certain culture the man who creates it must be preserved.
Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.
If this sounds harsh, that is how it is. Assuredely , however, by far the harsher fate is that which strikes the man who thinks he can overcome Nature, but in the last analysis only mocks her.Distress, disease,misfortune are her answer.
All the human culture, all the results of art, science,and technology that we see before us today , are almost exclusively the creative product of the white race. The idea of race mixing is abhorrent, the wrong kind of immigration patterns ensures criminal displacement of the original people in their own lands. The ideological motivation for these crimes is often a radical or extreme egalitarianism, which seeks to abolish all inequalities by abolishing all distinctions, differences and diversity, as well as values and standards. A brazen and monstrous nihilism. As moral nihilism commonly asserts that morality does not exist, so racial nihilism often denies the existence of races, claiming that nothing exists to preserve or conserve. This is racial deconstructionism, the ideological annihilation of race ot ideologiacal reduction of race to nothingness, defining race out of existence by deconstructing it. The disease is nursed and nurtured in the equalitarian lullabies of the Oneness goal of One world, one race.
The modern multiracial society is a wasteland, the one world one race dream provides an effective vehicle to promote erasure of whites , as it allows the European race no rights in its own territory,independence or existence but would consign the European to a multiracial melting pot by permitting non stop invasion of the most fecund races of the thirld world into its living space.
Racial conservation has much in common with the conservation of the environment and Nature. A symposium would be held on how to protect the preservation of a group of seals, but no such symposium would be allowed for the preservation of the European race.

We are still Greeks, and yes if we had been through the mixing threadmill of the past, we are suffering the consequences now. We should not aggravate it further by cohabiting with the inferior thirld worlders. The ancient civilizations of tha past need not concern us. They have been consigned to the pages of history, no Mubaraks,no Gamal Abdel Nassers, no Anwar Sadats are representatives of Egyptian civilization, they are simply the decayed matter that has been inherited by contemporary men. The Persians were Aryans ,white and similar to the Greeks of ancient times. Persia today is no bearer of that civilization. I am not decrying nor detracting from other groups , racial groups, civilizations and achievements, but these are no longer relevant today and it helps us,Europeans, not in our historical crucibles that lie ahead.
We must shed the guilty complexes about being white and resistance to the etiolation of our race as it appears to us now. If we can improve its present stock, selective eugenic planning is required, but it definitely will go into evolutionary regression, degeneration and racial deracination by fornicating with an African, a Mongol, a chinese, an Indian, or Pakistanies.

An entire race, the European race is being integrated to death. While the vast majority of all other races ( Blacks in Africa, Asians in Asia) remain as segregated as ever. Resistance to the trend does not make one a "forward looking-progressive human conservationist" but rather a genocidal racist. It can not be repeated often enough that modern racial integration is another great hoax of human history. Not Mankind but one race only is being integrated----to death---.
One looks in vain for evidence of integration in Peking, or Delhi or Lagos, finding instead only endless swarms of people of uniform color- yellow, brown and black respectively. The Cosmopolitan city of mixed race is an exclusive feature of the white world. Humanity as a whole is not about to turn a uniform brown color with non-descript features, only its white people, the boobos of history are.

To preserve the European, and by implication to preserve our greek nation and race, separatism and exclusion of non assimilable aliens is the only way. There are no exceptions to this rule.
The European, like the whites in America and Canada, appear to be in the process of physical and mental degeneration, which is producing the Ape within him and is leading us into chaotic pandemonium . If we have to carry the name tag of Supremacists, intolerants, bigots,and other classification to defend our heritage our future and living space than we have to be what our are enemies call us, but never ,never feel guilty for the struggle to survive in the human jungle.

Modern Greece ? What can I say that has not been said already. Greece was also modern in the 50's, 60's 70's. We had a clean,homogeneous and proud nation. We might not have produced scientist , or nobel laureates in their thousands, but so what ?

The immigrant /invasion phenomenom is a cancerous growth that was implanted in the late 80's. The massive non- white invaders pouring into countries in Europe, Germany, Holland, U.K., France,has now overspilled into our tiny nation. Modern Greece post 1990? I hate to admit it, that the level of production,the play of emotions,the way people talk, even our way of not giving a damn,our tolerance and indolence for antigreekness, these are symptoms of thirld worldness, and just as the white world is becoming thirld world ( but the thirld world has not turned white in the bargain) the problems of modern Greece, our Greece, will experience an incremental entropy, social,political,environmental.

The African Eve theory is Kaput.
A false theory that like the flight of the termite had its fleeting brief second of ideological high noon..

Although the research was sloppy , unscientific and speculative ,the political left strongly supported the African Eve theory. To say that this shabby Lysenko-like scientific fraud ,that burst into the scene in 1987 ,and the accompanying media
blitz was transparent in its unsubtleties is to waste one's breath. The motivation behind this audacious canard was to buttress the Marxist anthropological school of the derelict Franz Boas and his factotum Margaret Mead, who together have lorded over contemporary anthropology, and in America in particular, for all too many years. Today ,modern methods of research are giving scientists the tools to obtain hard data in areas that formerly were the exclusive domain of Boas and his school of monopolistic anthropoligical fraudsters, ensconced in tenures behind the fortress walls of Academia and pontificating at will.

Furthermore , non ideological anthropology is willing to consider the possibility that man developed separately in widely scattered parts of the earth and that various races took their present form on parallel tracks ,following widely varying schedules of development. Any common ancestor , if there was one , existed a long,long time before man had reached anything close to his present evolutionary grade. As evidence for this theory accumulates,the inevitable result will be the recognition that the different races of mankind differ profoundly, not only in their physiology but ,most importantly,in their cerebral apparatus, the locus of intelligence and personality.

African Eve was of the highest importance to the leftist intelligentsia because, if it could be proven that a Negro woman was the ancestor of every living person, than every living person was, at least in part, a Negro. Consequently the "fascist" anthropologist, like Carletoon Coon , Hamsuin and others, who held that the evolution of races took place in different areas and in different time frames, would be largely discredited.

An important byproduct of the Eve theory would be the psychological blow to so called "racists" of knowing that a remote ancestor was a black, thus making claims of racial difference- or superiority- sound rather farfetched.

The ideological Left never gives up, a number of anthropology quacks keep on peddling scientific schlock,and beating the drums about an African origin for mankind.

We are here dealing with theories. Another theory is that Africa at the time provided a suitable environment for primate development ( not any more, today the bipeds have encroached on their territories). The higher primates moved on ,to evolve far from the dark continent, into modern humans. As for the lesser developed or "laggard" primates left behind,they evolved into the present day blacks or negros. It will not take too long to prove this theory.

Thanks to Ethnocentrist for providing valuable researched data.

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Manolis...Since you decided to ignore my request to keep your comments civil, you are no longer welcome to comment on my blog. Any further comments posted by you will be immediately removed.

SeaWitch, Thank you for removing the above post. Removing comments is a tricky one, I know, but that was a clear cut case for doing it.

Dammit. I thought I caught it before anyone saw it. That post served no purpose whatsoever but to insult and incite.

My timing was just tooo good. I think I saw it about three minutes before you removed it! You are right. This is no place for posts that only serve to "insult and incite" As we know, there are enough places out there to do that.

I had been meaning to ask ethnocentrist, why did you post the article about Paris here? I imagine that you are trying to say that lots of black people together in one place equals civil war. To call what happened "civil war" is a gross exaggeration and would not have been used to describe the rampaging Greek youth I see in downtown Athens a couple of times a year. That made it to CNN too. Police in riot gear, tear gas, the burning cars, the smashed windows and people on both sides getting injured. When angry youth (they were demonstrating about what they saw as police killings)are confronted by the figures of authority they see as the enemy, riots and street fighting often follow. Have you ever stopped to think how right wing propaganda works as well. You seem to know a lot about the lefty marxist take on things but little about your own indoctrination by the right.
NO. I DO NOT CONDONE THE BEHAVIOUR OF THESE PEOPLE. I just wonder what is your point?

Racial conservation has much in common with the conservation in nature. The conservation and protection of nature and the natural environment depended on the development of a conservationist or environmentalist ethic, a system of morals and values that appreciated and recognized the importance of the natural environment and sought to preserve it.
Racial preservation depends upon the develpment of a conservative ethic for race, or human nature, similar to the conservationist ethic developed for non-human nature. It requires an ethic, a moral, a racial affirmation and conservation to replace the current
ethic of racial denial and destruction, a morality with a positive view of race as a good to be appreciated, cherished,valued,loved and preserved rather than the current negative view of race as an evil to be discarded, rejected and destroyed.

What is happening in Paris, in New Orleans, and in Birmingham comes as no surprise at all. Thirld world invasion will recreate thirld world conditions in the countries subjected to this disease. In Greece we are incredibly fortunate at this very moment, the number of the invaders is still below the level to cause social entropy and racial discord. That is why the importation of non-white peoples is not to be tolerated in any degree. Greece is for Greeks, in blood, body and soul.

I don't think any sane Greek would like to read in the headlines, rioting in Omonia or Volos.

In France, the first African nation in the heart of Europe, the extinction of the French is happening right before our eyes. It is not hard to see that the original French Gaul is being erasede and replaced by memebers of the African/Asian continent.
The French disease did not start yesterday. It started in 1918, when the French in peacock arrogance declared they were a nation of 100 million ( taking into account the inhabitants of their African and Arab possesions.
They sinned against their ancestors and against European men when they enlisted non european soldiers ( Blacks and Arabs) to kill,maim and destroy Europeans.
France will be paying the ultimate price of race betrayal.
These riots are nothing to compare with the invasion Tsunami building up in the horizon.

Disturbances have been reported from Denmark as well.
The Islamists know their agenda and brook no differences. Islam claims to rise above nationality,and its ultimate vision is of a world united in submission to Allah, in which nation-states, as in the Marxist vision, have withered away.

Unlikely bed fellows are Islam and the contemporary regime of the Oneworlders,globalists, and pluralists. Islam and the new projects of the corrupt West have the same ultimate goal, that is the destruction of the diversity of nations and its replacement with a humungous unitary entity.
According to Islamic scholars and idelogues,they vouch that "Once a global Islamic movement acquires global following and legitimacy, all States ( Greece included) whose statehood is predicated on nationality may be considered under sentence of disintegration and death.

Unlikely bed fellows ? or the obverse and reverse of the same project. Ironically the American military, Nato, and pan European movements, are giving Islam great hope, because their power is so often used in the service of multiculturalism , globalism , and nation state destruction (more children are receiving the message of Islam, indiluted by the immigration pandemic and the multiculturel virus afflicting Europeans).



Many forceps are being applied in the targeted goal for the abandonment and denial of that which is one's own, Multiculturalism is the guise of one of these forceps.
It is imperative to abandon and deny the multiculturalism of our postmodern world, until we rise above our pathological self hatred and return to the certainties of tradition and kinship and soil and memory our hopes for the future are compromised.

This reading is like a nightmare.
Let's hope and pray that our Greece does not succumb under the weight of the immigration propaganda. If there ever was a misbegotten conception it was the immigration scam they hoisted on our nation. It saddens me and pains me to see what is happening in cities where the riots are taking place. Greek cities are a short distance hours away from those not so far away cities .
Greece must not only bring down an iron curtain against non white-muslim immigration but should also institute repatriation measures of those already in the country.

A healthy mind in a healthy body.

Excellent posting by Ethnocentrist.

During my childhood and adolescent years I grew up with the conviction, so was the universal wisdom then, that the world is overpopulated, that we must keep our population growth in check, that Greece can not hold 7 million Greeks in our restricted perimeter. The world's problems would result from overpopulation etc, etc,.

Like Ethnocentrist quite aptly remarked, what happened to this predictions and forecasts ?

They, the devil incarnate leftists, communists and humanitarian flagellum, succeded in driving our birth rate down to unacceptable levels.An independent observer of the situation would think that now with less population the existing living space would be more confortable for its occupants.

No ,now we need immigrants, for our tax base. Every single person who thinks,imagines,that immigrants are needed for our tax base ( an Albanian pimp in Omonia Square, a Gabonese pratting gibberish sounds peddling pornographic DVD's outside Panepistimiou station, a Pakistani with his smuggled handbags,and greasy samousas, a muslim Kurd hollering and displaying miniature narguiles and trash in Peristeri, , are the scion members and supporters of our tax base) or that an immigrant "Never ages, but stays as young as the day he landed on the shores of Chios" will take care ,contribute and support Greeks and their tax base, these persons need urgent reassessement of their thoughts and ideas.

I am told, that a huge number of abortions take place every year. An unmitigated crime. If parents ,or single parents don't want the children, let the State take responsibility for them ( that is assuming we had a state as a state should be) nurse them , nurture them and provide the work batallions for the Greek entrepreneurs whose manufacturing plants and factories require workers.

Xenophobe is a good greek word, and its usage is appropriate to the circumstances. Under no conditions can the word Xenophobe indicate a pejorative nuance. I will not feel offended, nor take umbrage if I am called a Xenophobe. There must be a reason for Xenophobia and its cure is not increased invasion and more of the same immigrant toxin, but less and less of it.

Another very well researched and documented posting by Ethnos.

Nations are like houses, and you can build them on either rock or sand. A nation build on rock is a nation made up of one race united by a shared history, culture and genetic makeup. When a storm comes, it does not fall because its people rightly see and help each other as part of the big family.
A nation built on sand is a nation made up of different races disunited because they don't have a shared history, culture ,and genetic makeup. When a storm comes, it falls because it's people don't and can't see each other as part of the same big family.
The situation in France is a defacto case of delineating territorial imperatives.

The Muslims can never become french, even if they are called "frenchmen", these are already third generation muslims who staked a ground in the suburbs of Paris and have declared it for all intents and purposes Muslim territory. The Chirac's, the Villepen, the Sarkozy's can not do anything about it because they don't understand, or don't want to see the dynamics of race, and they are the finished products of the proponents of the perverted /liberal ,multicultural and multiracial school of thought.