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Tuesday, May 02, 2006 

The Men in Blue

Women Need Not Apply
On April 28, Greece's highest court (Council of State) told the Greek Police Force NOT to hire any more women after ruling "that men were better are fulfilling the force’s tasks."

Are they? Are men better equipped to handle female victims of sexual assaults and sex trafficking, or wife abuse? I sincerely doubt it. I'm sure most women will agree that female victims would much rather to have their cases dealt with by a female police officer. Considering that the majority of all the disgraceful charges brought against the Greek police force recently (rape, torture, corruption, gambling and prostitution), the perpetrators were male, not female.

The Council of State said that only 15 percent of recruits going through the police academy should be women. Some 2,800 women currently serve in the police force — out of a total of 42,848 officers (6.5 percent) — and the court said this figure was high enough.

What leads them to believe it's high enough? Did they do any research on it or did they decide all by themselves that 6.5% is the magic maximum number and that's the end of it? What are their criteria for making this percentage the ceiling of female police officers on staff?

Explaining its ruling, the court said that the limit was justified because of the nature of police work. According to the court, this demands “a high level of physical fitness and muscular strength, speed, endurance, a large degree of courage and composure — qualities in which men are superior to women.”

We may not be as strong or as fast as men in every case but when it comes to endurance, courage and composure I beg to differ. Throughout history, women have endured as much if not more than men. Is there a quantifiable method to ascertain the level of courage anyone has let alone females? Bouboulina would roll over in her grave if she heard this one. As for composure, it's quite obvious the good Court has not read the Policewomen on Patrol study where it states that "women patrol officers tended to be more effective than their male counterparts in avoiding violence and defusing potentially violent situations."

The court said that policemen are often called on to confront violent situations and catch dangerous criminals, and that women could not be asked to do this “because of the well-known biological differences.”

Because we're not physically as strong as men, we can't catch criminals? Is that what this statement implies? With all the new technology available to police departments in the 21st century, surely there are positions inside the force which don't require women to apprehend the most violent criminals by themselves in dark street alleys.

I checked the calendar and I'm still in the year 2006. I can't speak for the persons who were behind this ruling though, I'm sure the calendars on their desks read 1806.

Mobile Police Vans
By the end of this year, Athens will be getting some hi-tech mobile police vans in a bid to help Athenians feel safer while hopefully reducing some of the workload on the traditional bricks and mortar police stations. Just how many we're getting, they don't say. What their actual capabilities are remains to be seen. They might turn out to be ice cream trucks with a plastic fold-up desk, frappe maker and a fan for all I know. How much they'll cost is not mentioned either...and I'm too afraid to find out.

The Public Order Ministry plans to park them in densely populated areas like Kypseli to assist citizens in reporting crimes as well as getting signatures validated for the endless amount of paperwork demanded by nearly every single government office and financial institution in order to process their own paperwork. Having spent hours in the past searching for parking and then waiting in slow-moving line-ups to get this done, I'm really hoping against all odds that these vehicles may save Athenians a lot of time.

Considering that the vans are supposed to be equipped with the same technological equipment (ie., one dilapidated computer and 4 inept operators) already in police stations, reality dictates that we will still be waiting outside the vans while the equipment goes on the blink.

Apparently, they'll also be 'examining the crime scenes in their areas'. Whether this means they'll be packing CCTV equipment or just observing activity in recognized crime areas could be anybody's guess. Who knows? Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and find out that sidewalk parking could be eliminated, crime will decrease and efficiency increased all for a reasonable price. And maybe pigs (no pun intended...honestly) really can fly.
















I'm sorry, but the Greek police force is a joke. If they think keeping the number of female officers down is going to help matters, then they are sorely mistaken. Women who want to be police officers are just as qualified as men who want to be police officers.

What it needs is a complete overhaul and some people running things who know what the hell they are doing.

Yea, high tech trucks are going to help people feel safer. Lol, I have a picture of MALE police officers in them snoozing and playing video games or watching porn.

I am SURE they'll have a frappe maker! LOL. Good grief. You are right, Seawitch, who would believe it is 2006 here in Greece?

Women are suited to being the nurses and teachers of our earliest childhood precisely because they themselves are childish, silly and shortsighted, in a word big children, their whole lives long: a kind of intermediate stage between the child and the man, who is the actual being, 'man'.

The manly job of police duties are not in the women's realm. In the girl nature has had in view what could in theatrical terms be called a stage effect: it has provided her with superabundant beauty ( a great disservice to humanity to squander such blessings in areas incompatible with her psyche) and charm for a few years at the expense of the whole remainder of her life, so that during these years she may capture the imagination of a man that he is carried away into undertaking to support her honorably in some form or another for the rest of her life, a step he would seem hardly likely to take for purely rational considerations. Thus nature has equipped women, as it has all its creatures, with the tools and weapons ( which are unidiosyncratic with police-military disciplines) she needs for securing her existence, and at just the time she needs them; in doing which nature has acted with its usual economy. For just as the female ant loses its wings after mating, since they are superfluous, indeed harmful to the business of raising the family, so the woman usually loses her beauty after one or two childbeds, and probably for the same reason.
The man attains the maturity of his reasoning powers and spiritual faculties hardly before his twenty-eight years; the woman with her eighteenth. And even then it is only reasoning power of a sort; a very limited sort.
Thus women remain children all their lives, never see anything but what is closest to them , cleave to the present moment, take appearance for reality and prefer trifles to the most important affairs.
Women think in their hearts that the man's business is to make money and theirs is to spend it, where possible during the man's lifetime, but in any case after his death.
Women display more pity, and consequently more philanthropy and sympathy with the unfortunate.

They are by nature unsuited to duties and task that entail bringing to justice the unfortunate, the infractor. Therefore the Police force has acted judiciously in barring or reducing the intake of women in the corps.

Bello: Your last paragraph follows logically from the previous ones, congratulations! Can you list the sources of all the statements you make in the previous paragraphs? I am interested in learning more about the topic!

Deviousdiva: All countries have several problems, I wonder whether you believe your country is more advanced in some aspects, if yes can you explain how it managed to progress so much faster than Greece? I want to learn more about that topic too!

Once again we are reading each others blogs at the very same time!
And interesting isn't it that both post are about women in these macho societies?

zardoz...I didn't know that the number was 50% women in EAM/ELAS forces but I did know that they did contribute alot to the Greek Resistance in WWII. I don't know if we can outdo men in any job but I'm definitely sure we are capable of matching them in job performance if not more in most jobs. But I do agree with you that this newest hiring law for the police force is completely stupid.

mel...I think you're right. The whole police force is in need of an overhaul...not some draconian law to keep the status quo as is. And I would LOVE to see those pics of male officers snoozing and watching porn on the job. I wish I had such a pic for this blog, I definitely would have posted it.

diva...amazing isn't it? They can never have enough frappe makers but they've decided they've had enough women.

bello...I stated my opinion on the subject and you stated yours. No further comment on my part necessary.

seal...I second your motion to have some reputable sources as proof of not just bello's statements but of the law itself.

traveller...Do you have telekinetic powers you're not telling me about? This synchronization of reading each other's blogs happens far too often for it to be a coincidence anymore. LOL And now we're writing on the same subjects at the same time? Get out of my head or start paying rent! hahahaha

Geez Seawitch, you and DeviousDiva get the damnedest commenters!

I wonder if button pressing and paper pushing is also men's work.

Step aside little lady, He-Man must send an e-mail!

I would think a lot of male officers would be more comfortable having rape cases of women handled by women officers. I don't know how bad rape is in Greece, but the percentages of women that will be available seems low whatever the rate of said crime is.

It would be either disingenuous or delusional to say men don't have certain biological advantages, but there are things women can learn, beyond the gouge eyes and knee groins techniques highlighted in shows that have women's self defense as as an element of the story. Jujitsu, aikido, martial arts such as those, could be very helpful in evening the playing field.

I don't know if Greek police can carry guns, my hunch is they cannot. Of course, I think that's dumb if that's the case, but, fine. Either way, women don't have to be totally outmatched in the physical department. It's not like every suspect is going to be a Karate champion.

Greek police do carry guns.

Hi Seawitch. I've been enjoying reading your blog for a while now. I like your measured tone and your informative posts. You have dignity.

Comments about the percentage of women in the Greek police force make no sense without a comparator.

Try these two ...

UK (a couple of years out-of-date)




http://dsp-psd.communication.gc.ca/Collection-R/Statcan/85-225-XIE/0000585-225-XIE.pdf (go to page 16)

Both at 17-18%. Do you think this level happens by accident? There appears to be a consensus, then, that the police is operationally at its most effective with a majority of male police officers, but that women are needed to perform some roles and to present a more gender-balanced profile.

Do you disagree with the percentage, or the principle? If it is the percentage, then look at Canada a few years ago ... Is the percentage proposed not appropriate to a country such as Greece or would a higher percentage (such as 18%) send a much needed marker to those who seek to maintain an outdated macho culture?

I've been scared witless in police cells so am under no illusions about my ability to confront a violent offender. UK police officers are, however, reminded constantly that no man is strong enough to win every fight - but then they don't have guns. And I wouldn't fancy my chances against an irrational violent woman either.

mel...LOL. Yes, we do seem to attract some of the litter from the internet highway on our blogs.

eff...Thanks for the comment. Of course, I'm in agreement with you. And as sealr says, yes, the greek police do carry guns...and semi-automatics when they're sweeping the squares for illegal immigrants in a show of force.

daffodil...thanks for reading and commenting on my blog. I really do try to keep a balanced perspective when writing my blog but you should see me WHILE I'm reading the news...anger is an understatement. LOL I have to relax a bit first before I blog the subject which offends or upsets me.
For the most part, I do agree that using comparisons can help support points I'm trying to make when writing my posts. But this post in particular was about the decision to exclusivey prohibit women entering the force without them giving any justification whatsoever for it. Another post would be needed to justify an increase in the percentage of women on the Force because I would have to deal with issues like "how many women are 'enough'" and then use links like the ones you've provided to support my case. I find that if I try to tackle too many issues in one post, then people will stop reading after the fifth paragraph and lose interest. Check my earlier posts written in 2004...which were more like books. People often clicked out before I wrote the concluding paragraph. I try to keep the initial post as concise as possible and then sometimes I try to expand on it in the comments section from other readers' contributions.
I really appreciate your comment though and am always on the lookout for comparative or backgrounder links like the ones you posted. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

The Greek police is a joke. I've lived here for years and can only say they are the most incompetent police I have ever seen. They do not make anyone feel safe!!! Jerkoffs!!!

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